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Brazilian court orders suspension of X

theguardian.com

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Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#261

Post by throwaway87267 »

throwaway87267 wrote: post #13

The same judge that is responsible for X's suspension ordered Apple and Google to take down VPN apps from their app stores as well. https://web.archive.org/web/20240830201851/https://www.conju... (Page 49 and 50, document is in Portuguese) Brazil is heading down a very dark path.

Since I can't edit my comment anymore, here's an update: The order to take down VPN apps from app stores has been suspended until further action by X or Elon Musk.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240830235848/https://www.cnnbr...

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#262

Post by jrflowers »

Wytwwww wrote: post #158
jrflowers wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't mean that anyone who could avoid it should feel compelled to accept that Courts can literally compel you to comply with court orders in virtually every country, unless of course as you have pointed out, you have the means to avoid being compelled. The “… when this is done by an arbitrary and corrupt government” sentiment has no real meaning here as you have pointed out that Musk can avoid being compelled ei…

Nobody has been talking about arresting Musk himself, rather employees or representatives of Twitter who are required to be present in Brazil just for this specific reason (i.e. so that they could be arrested and used as bargaining chips to force the foreign company to do whatever the government/("independent") judiciary wants. Also I really don't understand your overall point.

My overall point is that there is little indication that this is some battle between good and evil or right and wrong.

This is about a guy who faces no personal consequences whatsoever choosing to ignore court orders and a government penalizing his business for that choice. There is some speculation that maybe the judge is acting illegally but I haven’t seen anyone familiar with Brazilian constitutional law say that. There is also speculation that the judge is acting unethically, though the only “ethical” alternative offered is “let Elon Musk do whatever he wants”, which is less of an argument about ethics and more of a statement of what fandom a person subscribes to.

If the judge is acting illegally I sure hope the citizens of Brazil address that. If he’s simply pissing off a rich libertarian that’s popular on his own website then I hope he continues to do so.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#263

Post by pkaeding »

hagbard_c wrote: post #201
swatcoder wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How come I I'm now banned from reading what Zelensky, Kasparov, Yann LeCun, and thousands of others world leaders have to say? > How come my neighbor, who makes a honest living through X-Twitter, has now lost her job? Because the other party did violate the law. Unfortunately, Twitter got taken over by an international ideologue who likes to pick fights, and you and your neighbor are suffering the consequences of t…

> Twitter got taken over by an international ideologue Twitter was bought from ideologues by someone who opened it up to other ideologies. While this may have increased the absolute ideological load on the platform it actually decreased the effective ideological charge since opposite sides cancel out each other, pulling the balance towards the centre where it used to tilt heavily towards a single side.

I don't think opposing ideas cancel each other out, like so much electrical charge.

The more opposing ideas on a platform, the more ideas are spread, tested, strengthened, weakened, and grown.

An echo chamber is where ideas go to die.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#264

Post by hintymad »

virgulino wrote: post #5

"People who use VPN to access X will be subject to daily fines of US$8,900" Edit: Thanks for this user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404325 for posting the court order and bringing this new information: Apple and Google must remove all VPN apps from their stores! Apple and Google must DELETE all VPN apps already installed on users' phones!!! https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-suspended-de-moraes...

Wow! Day by day, I appreciate more and more how precious the liberty and freedom we have in the US.

And shame on Canada and UK!

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#265

Post by BadHumans »

HaZeust wrote: post #213
ein0p wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what’s coming next.

I've heard that for 15 years straight, they went for adult content RealID before going for VPNs - which, if your beliefs end up being true - was a ridiculous order of priority. Thus, I don't think they'll go for VPNs.

You'd think with all of the people saying "they won't go after..." and being wrong people would show a bit less hubris.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#266

Post by virgulino »

virgulino wrote: post #5

"People who use VPN to access X will be subject to daily fines of US$8,900" Edit: Thanks for this user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404325 for posting the court order and bringing this new information: Apple and Google must remove all VPN apps from their stores! Apple and Google must DELETE all VPN apps already installed on users' phones!!! https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-suspended-de-moraes...

THIS JUST IN: Judge Moraes has backtracked on the removal of VPN apps from stores and phones. He has just issued a new court order.

But the ban and the fine of US$8,900 for users who use a VPN to access X-Twitter still apply!

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#267

Post by [deleted] »

virgulino wrote: post #5

"People who use VPN to access X will be subject to daily fines of US$8,900" Edit: Thanks for this user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404325 for posting the court order and bringing this new information: Apple and Google must remove all VPN apps from their stores! Apple and Google must DELETE all VPN apps already installed on users' phones!!! https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-suspended-de-moraes...

[deleted]

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#268

Post by hintymad »

eatonphil wrote: post #2

> The decision imposes a daily fine of R$50,000 (£6,800) on individuals and companies that attempt to continue using X via VPN. Fining even users is a bit surprising.

> Fining even users is a bit surprising

Not really. Using VPN is illegal in China. The police can put you in jail for using VPNs. Of course, there are very few cases like this even though many people use underground VPNs. This is typical behavior of an authoritarian state: the government reserves the rights to punish you when the situation is right.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#269

Post by virgulino »

narrator wrote: post #15
virgulino wrote: post #5

"People who use VPN to access X will be subject to daily fines of US$8,900" Edit: Thanks for this user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404325 for posting the court order and bringing this new information: Apple and Google must remove all VPN apps from their stores! Apple and Google must DELETE all VPN apps already installed on users' phones!!! https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-suspended-de-moraes...

I think he's just making it up as he goes along now.

It sure looks that way! He has just issued a new court order backtracking on the removal of VPN apps from stores. But the fine still stands: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41405776

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#270

Post by g-b-r »

ffsm8 wrote: post #260
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see what happens when Google refuses to comply! Not gonna happen. But it should, if this is the order!

Why do you want Google of all companies to stand above the sovereign state, which is a representative democracy? The ruling is incredibly dumb for sure (at least the removing apps from devices part), but if the sovereign state demands it, they'll either have to exit the market/nation entirely or comply.

being a democracy does not guarantee that everything you do is correct
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