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Brazilian court orders suspension of X

theguardian.com

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Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#151

Post by postepowanieadm »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #101
troupo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a year ago Musk was happily complying with censorship orders in Turkey [1] and [2] In Brasil's case he decided to abruptly pull out if the country. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena... [2] https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja...

The difference is: Brazil is being run by Lula Silva, who opposes Bolsonaro, while Turkey is run by Erdogan, and India is run by Modi. If you want to connect the thread, look into what kind of leaders Bolsonaro, Modi, and Erdogan are.

That's some conspiracy theory.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#152

Post by NomDePlum »

pmdr wrote: post #112
facorreia wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Brazil, a Justice of the Supreme Court has the power to impose fines on people and companies that violate the law. In this case, federal law #12.965.

Can individual judges do as they please without any voting or consensus?

There job is to interpret and implement the law. So they should never do as they please but ensure the law is enforced.

Sometimes that's conjunction with a jury or as a panel of judges. Those scenarios involve voting or consensus. But not all judgements are made this way.

Decisions can be appealed or challenged by higher courts.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#153

Post by crop_rotation »

brigadier132 wrote: post #136
facorreia wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's explained in Article 102 of the Brazilian Constitution (in Portuguese): https://constituicao.stf.jus.br/dispositivo/cf-88-parte-1-ti...

So just from skimming a translated version, it does not seem like Judges have the power to impose fines, ban unrelated companies that are owned by the same person, or ban things like VPNs. Am I missing something?

You are not missing anything. The Brazilian court has done far more about things which it does not have any basis for. There are many previous HN threads about it as well. Some brazilians had detailed those instances in those threads.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#155

Post by guerrilla »

brigadier132 wrote: post #72
crop_rotation wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual power is what a society will accept. At this point it seems like he can do anything a monarch could do in a kinda modern society.

Sure but I'm asking in theory, what is the power of justices according to their constitution.

I respect this response. So many people would have derailed the conversation by disagreeing.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#156

Post by SiempreViernes »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #148

I might not agree with Elon Musk on things he says and does these days, but he's very much in the right here, at least if you value freedom of speech, privacy, and democracy. The judge tried to silence the political opposition on Twitter via shadowbans and removal, Elon didn't comply, so they decided to go after Twitter employees in Brazil, to which Elon shut everything down to prevent the employees from being jailed…

Uh, the judge tried to punish insurrectionist and Twitter agreed to comply and then just didn't as opposed to how they did in India or Turkey.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#158

Post by Wytwwww »

jrflowers wrote: post #133
Wytwwww wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and? Doesn't mean that anyone who could avoid it should feel compelled to accept that when this is done by an arbitrary and corrupt government. Also I'm not sure it's very common for courts to arrest lawyers (and basically use them as hostages) because of their clients actions in most countries.

> Doesn't mean that anyone who could avoid it should feel compelled to accept that Courts can literally compel you to comply with court orders in virtually every country, unless of course as you have pointed out, you have the means to avoid being compelled. The “… when this is done by an arbitrary and corrupt government” sentiment has no real meaning here as you have pointed out that Musk can avoid being compelled ei…

Nobody has been talking about arresting Musk himself, rather employees or representatives of Twitter who are required to be present in Brazil just for this specific reason (i.e. so that they could be arrested and used as bargaining chips to force the foreign company to do whatever the government/("independent") judiciary wants.

Also I really don't understand your overall point.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#159

Post by hungie »

seydor wrote: post #140
hungie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent is saying Musk complied with these requests elsewhere without complaint, he's only making a fuss about it in Brazil. It's an odd hypocrisy or shift in strategy.

strategy about what? Elon isn't bound by some personal institutional law, he acts according to his whims. Even if we assume he was being hypocritical, the severe response from the judge makes the latter seem like he has ulterior motives ps. every major company has applied double standards wrt censorship requests in the past, the subject has a long history

Strategy about complying with censorship requests. He's happy to do so when it aligns with his politics, and makes a huge fuss when he it doesn't.

As a distant observer, it seems wild to me that anyone thinks this is about free speech.

Re: Brazilian court orders suspension of X

#160

Post by swatcoder »

virgulino wrote: post #119
facorreia wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Brazil, a Justice of the Supreme Court has the power to impose fines on people and companies that violate the law. In this case, federal law #12.965.

I did NOT violate the law. How come he is deleting the VPN apps on my phone??? That I need to remote to my overseas job??? How come I I'm now banned from reading what Zelensky, Kasparov, Yann LeCun, and thousands of others world leaders have to say? How come my neighbor, who makes a honest living through X-Twitter, has now lost her job?

> How come I I'm now banned from reading what Zelensky, Kasparov, Yann LeCun, and thousands of others world leaders have to say?

> How come my neighbor, who makes a honest living through X-Twitter, has now lost her job?

Because the other party did violate the law. Unfortunately, Twitter got taken over by an international ideologue who likes to pick fights, and you and your neighbor are suffering the consequences of that. He doesn't care about you in the least, and you should be wary about asking your government to pick up the slack for his egotism as it would just position him to further ignore or exploit you and your community.

(The broader VPN ban is admittedly another thing, though.)

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