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NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#81
post #64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your message isn't that it's glib; it's that it isn't logical. "Just pay old investors with new investors" isn't a business model (it is, obviously, the definition of a Ponzi Scheme). "Pay a licensing fee for XXX" is.

It might be illegal, dishonest and relatively unsustainable, but it is a way to make money. And existing business models (even legal ones) can still be dishonest and unsustainable. It is actually a very similar model to a lottery, except there's more lying involved to get more people to put in more money. So it's just an illegal and unethical business model. Also, the argument isn't that businesses shouldn't be able…

So anything that makes money is a "business model", morally and/or economically equivalent to any other business model? That can't possibly be what you meant to imply.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#82
post #75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you get to demand a third choice, besides "Pay 99 Cents" and "Don't Get The Song"? We get to because technology provides it. It's not about reasonableness, but ability and convenience. Is business and commerce suddenly subject to morality?

Awesome. How many YC companies are there now with web apps? How many of their admin consoles do I get to get because technology allows it? I bet a bunch of them would be happy to buy access back from me once I take it from them.

Huh? Hysterical.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#83
post #77
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, private businesses who pick their own business models, especially when they all pick the same one, shouldn't be surprised when those models provide, shall we say, less than perfect coverage of the market. Not only that, but this story is a perfect illustration of someone who has exercised their right to simply not buy music provided under these models. She has a right to this just as much as rights…

You know what else provides less than perfect coverage? Pin-tumbler locks. Should we stop prosecuting breaking and entering?

Category error. Pin-tumbler locks work for their purpose, don't they? The current business models for digital music don't, as evidenced by the topic at hand. I'm assuming you know what a market failure is..

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#84
post #70
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To watch GoT online, you need to have HBO bundled with your cable package, so for someone without cable, that's essentially $100/mo. I would absolutely pay $10-20/mo or $30-40 to watch GoT just on HBO online or streaming through Amazon. So I would say the inconvenience is more aligned with having to sign up for cable than anything else.

Any OS restrictions on that GoT/HBO facility? Netflix does.

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/index.html#/about/faqs/si...

"HBO.com is optimized for the most recent browsers and requires Flash and a broadband connection. Specifically, HBO.com supports Internet Explorer 6+, Firefox 2+ and Safari 2.03+ HBO.com requires the free Flash plug-in, version 9.0124 or greater."

Assuming they don't explicitly block Chrome, either that or FireFox should work fine on Linux.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#85
post #82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome. How many YC companies are there now with web apps? How many of their admin consoles do I get to get because technology allows it? I bet a bunch of them would be happy to buy access back from me once I take it from them.

Huh? Hysterical.

Well, if business has nothing to do with morality and the technology allows it, what's wrong with tptacek's proposal?

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#86
post #81
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be illegal, dishonest and relatively unsustainable, but it is a way to make money. And existing business models (even legal ones) can still be dishonest and unsustainable. It is actually a very similar model to a lottery, except there's more lying involved to get more people to put in more money. So it's just an illegal and unethical business model. Also, the argument isn't that businesses shouldn't be able…

So anything that makes money is a "business model", morally and/or economically equivalent to any other business model? That can't possibly be what you meant to imply.

I never implied that it's morally or even economically equivalent to any other business model--nothing says that all business models have to be morally or economically equivalent. But it is a business model very much like an illegal and dishonest lottery (e.g. people put money in with the hope of getting more out).

And yet, despite the fact that it is a business model, society does not condone it. The fundamental point, of which this is a very extreme example, is that there is no inherent right to a business model.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#87
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read my comment, or did your nerd brain instantly detect "comparison between $PHYSICAL_PRODUCT and $ENTITY_EXPRESSIBLE_AS_A_NUMBER" and cause you to blurt out this comment? Because I addressed the point you thought you were making against my comment. I mean this playfully. If we were discussing DOM corruption or block cipher modes I would probably have a hard time carefully reading comments that disagreed wit…

I did read and fully understand your comment, and no, I don't think you've addressed the point in my comment. However, I do agree you've suggested a subtler issue than the one usually discussed in this context, and since my comment used terms like "scarcity" and "infinitely copyable", I may have come across as endorsing a much more simplistic argument than I intended to make. You described the idea of taking a physic…

It really seems like you just listed out a bunch of things that are different about a bag of M&Ms and a piece of music without addressing the economic question. I think I understand that an M&M is different from an A minor chord voicing.

About the closest you came to the point I raised was to point out that even if you "square up" with the M&M vendor by paying his cost basis, you've still deprived that vendor of the right to sell their music --- oops, I mean M&Ms --- at the price they determined.

In other words, the closest you came to my point was by agreeing with me.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#88
post #82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome. How many YC companies are there now with web apps? How many of their admin consoles do I get to get because technology allows it? I bet a bunch of them would be happy to buy access back from me once I take it from them.

Huh? Hysterical.

I am struggling to see what's hysterical about it at all. Do you not read the news? Or do you genuinely believe that most startups aren't a half day away from a game-over flaw?

Or, like most nerds, are you comfortable with "might makes right" as long as you're the one with the might, and something you perceive as a giant faceless corporation is what the might is directed at?

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#89
post #86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So anything that makes money is a "business model", morally and/or economically equivalent to any other business model? That can't possibly be what you meant to imply.

I never implied that it's morally or even economically equivalent to any other business model--nothing says that all business models have to be morally or economically equivalent. But it is a business model very much like an illegal and dishonest lottery (e.g. people put money in with the hope of getting more out). And yet, despite the fact that it is a business model, society does not condone it. The fundamental poi…

Look, again, this is simple:

I said something to the effect of "I have a problem with the mentality that dictates other people's business models to them when we disapprove of the one they're currently using".

You responded with a glib comment to the effect of "You're suggesting we have to respect everyone's business models and make sure they work, so everyone should just run a Ponzi Scheme".

It does not take a cutting intellect to see the problem with your logic. Essentially what you're engaging in is the time-honored message- board- forensics tactic of "redefining words to fit your argument". If it makes you feel better to do that, so be it, but the only people you're going to persuade with that tactic are people who don't care what you say as long as it somehow supports file sharing. I wouldn't want to waste my time writing those kinds of comments, but I can't tell you how to spend your time.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read and fully understand your comment, and no, I don't think you've addressed the point in my comment. However, I do agree you've suggested a subtler issue than the one usually discussed in this context, and since my comment used terms like "scarcity" and "infinitely copyable", I may have come across as endorsing a much more simplistic argument than I intended to make. You described the idea of taking a physic…

It really seems like you just listed out a bunch of things that are different about a bag of M&Ms and a piece of music without addressing the economic question. I think I understand that an M&M is different from an A minor chord voicing. About the closest you came to the point I raised was to point out that even if you "square up" with the M&M vendor by paying his cost basis, you've still deprived that vendor of the…

You seem to have completely ignored any parts of my comment that didn't directly agree with you, and then attempted to reimpose the analogy that I spent the entire comment systematically rejecting. Specifically, I made the point that the rationale for copying data has nothing to do with its zero cost to copy, and even with a non-zero copying cost the rationale still applies. That rationale depends on the differences between a bag of M&Ms and a piece of music (or other data), which you dismissed as not "addressing the economic question"; you said that you "understand that an M&M is different from an A minor chord voicing", but then you reimposed an analogy that assumes you can treat them identically. I addressed the economic question quite plainly: a copier does not inherently owe anything to the author of the copied data. Anyone currently in possession of a piece of data can let anyone else copy it (on whatever terms they see fit), and the author has no inherent right to get involved in that transaction. They currently have an artificial right to get involved in that transaction, hence this discussion.

To further abuse analogies for a moment (note that I used "candy" rather than "M&Ms" to avoid confusing the copying analogy with trademark issues): if I open up a stand across the street from the candy vendor and start giving away free bags of candy, I haven't "deprived the vendor of the right to sell their candy at the price they determined". They have no such right; they have the right to try to sell it. (They might even successfully sell a few bags to people who don't want to cross the street.) Fundamentally, I've done nothing wrong and I owe the candy vendor nothing. I certainly don't owe them the cost basis of a bag of candy, and implying otherwise would make no sense. Even if I created those bags of candy by purchasing a bag from the vendor and analyzing it so I could precisely duplicate it, I still owe the vendor nothing beyond the original price I paid for that one bag of candy. Do you see anything particularly wrong with that analogy? (If you'd like to complain that I've suggested giving away something that costs a non-zero amount to produce, consider that people routinely provide free downloads even though they pay for bandwidth.)

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