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NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#71

Post by rhizome »

pdeuchler wrote: post #65
tptacek wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying "right and wrong don't matter, what matters is what you can get away with". In other words, "might makes right". Well then! In that case, I have very much chosen the wrong business model. Perhaps I should reconsider. A better business model might be: NO UPFRONT FEES FOR SQL INJECTION VULNERABILITIES! Woohoo! In fact, no upfront anything ! We'll just go ahead and find them.…

I'm not saying that at all, in any way, shape or form. My argument is that people are failing to distinguish the moral argument from the economic one. Market forces don't have to be just or moral, they just have to be exactly that... market forces. There's no room for a "morality" variable in an economic formula, there's only concrete numbers that dictate price and demand. In this case the market has decided that the…

And to be sure, the labels and rightsholders are insisting on a morality that they themselves are not subject and do not follow. Note also that nobody is asking why the labels aren't being "reasonable" in adapting their business models. "Might makes right" indeed.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#73

Post by rhizome »

smspence wrote: post #38
mhb wrote: post #15

"...what she really wants is simply to pay to subscribe to “one massive Spotify-like catalog of music that will sync to my phone and various home entertainment devices...” Isn't that what Rhapsody is?

Pretty much. And isn't that what Spotify is? or is it implied that Spotify doesn't have a library as big as she wants? Lately, I have been listening to Slacker Radio with a Premium account ($10/month), and it is very much like Spotify and/or Rhapsody, and I have been pretty impressed with how big the library of music is that can be played on-demand.

It's not implied, it's explicitly defined as part of their business model. Spotify's tagline for their catalog is "something for everyone." "Something," not everything, means it's a limited selection.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#74

Post by rhizome »

tptacek wrote: post #7

Oh, boy, these threads are going to be a whole bucket of fun. 200-odd commenters competing to see who can most stridently express opposition to the copyright/royalty/license business model of mainstream music, and 5 of us getting yelled at for suggesting that maybe private businesses should be able to pick their own business models, even if they're completely idiotic, and that everyone has the right to simply not buy…

By the same token, private businesses who pick their own business models, especially when they all pick the same one, shouldn't be surprised when those models provide, shall we say, less than perfect coverage of the market.

Not only that, but this story is a perfect illustration of someone who has exercised their right to simply not buy music provided under these models. She has a right to this just as much as rightsholders have a right to feed a market failure by not being reasonable in adapting their business models to reality.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#75

Post by tptacek »

rhizome wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you get to demand a third choice, besides "Pay 99 Cents" and "Don't Get The Song"? A small bag of M&Ms costs, I don't know, 79 cents? Why is 79 cents considered reasonable for 29 peanut M&Ms? If I object to that price, and instead pony up the marginal cost of those M&Ms and their packaging (more like 13 cents), am I being reasonable or unreasonable?

Why do you get to demand a third choice, besides "Pay 99 Cents" and "Don't Get The Song"? We get to because technology provides it. It's not about reasonableness, but ability and convenience. Is business and commerce suddenly subject to morality?

Awesome. How many YC companies are there now with web apps? How many of their admin consoles do I get to get because technology allows it? I bet a bunch of them would be happy to buy access back from me once I take it from them.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#76

Post by tptacek »

pdeuchler wrote: post #66
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how this responds to my comment, since reselling books I scan from the library seems perfectly analogous to the market you propose.

There is a clear disconnect to both of our interpretations of each other's comments. Please see my response to the other comment in this thread.

I'll read and respond to that comment, but I'd like to reiterate that the comment you made immediately above the one I'm responding to is nonresponsive. The analogy I've provided, of pirating and reselling books from the library, is in fact perfectly analogous to the issue we're discussing.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#77

Post by tptacek »

rhizome wrote: post #74
tptacek wrote: post #7

Oh, boy, these threads are going to be a whole bucket of fun. 200-odd commenters competing to see who can most stridently express opposition to the copyright/royalty/license business model of mainstream music, and 5 of us getting yelled at for suggesting that maybe private businesses should be able to pick their own business models, even if they're completely idiotic, and that everyone has the right to simply not buy…

By the same token, private businesses who pick their own business models, especially when they all pick the same one, shouldn't be surprised when those models provide, shall we say, less than perfect coverage of the market. Not only that, but this story is a perfect illustration of someone who has exercised their right to simply not buy music provided under these models. She has a right to this just as much as rights…

You know what else provides less than perfect coverage? Pin-tumbler locks. Should we stop prosecuting breaking and entering?

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#78

Post by Cd00d »

Two initial reactions: 1) with the current state of iTunes and Amazon downloads, it seems easier, safer, more legal, and more supportive to buy songs, instead of relying on P2P. You can't claim to be a music lover with 15 GB of free music, IMHO - you're only a collector without commitment.

2) She claims that the music wasn't illegally downloaded, implying to me that she trades legally purchased copies with friends. Since she's only purchase 15 albums worth, I'd claim she's a leach to her friends, as that seems really uneven an exchange.

I dunno. I'm older now, and selectively downloaded free music when I was younger and poorer. I never wanted to collect hundreds of albums I would never get around to listening to, so even in the Napster heyday, my collection didn't explode like others. Now I buy my music, but I don't know if that's because iTunes removed the ethical dilemma for me, or because I have more cash and maturity.

Though these days, I seem to only listen to podcasts.

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#79

Post by tzs »

te_chris wrote: post #32
ghshephard wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually see it that way. Admittedly, there is always some gray area when it comes to Intellectual Property, but, in this case, the intern's behavior was just disgraceful. Stealing is stealing. Ever since reasonably priced alternatives (iTunes and Amazon) of non-drm content in flexible packaging (per song purchasing) became available - music listeners have no excuse for stealing music. I.E. This might have be…

They still don't offer lossless, so there's one rationale right there. While it's oh so easy to claim a moral high ground on this there are still things in the market which could be easily offered (ALAC downloads in the iTunes store, for example) but aren't. As such, I use spotify premium for day to day, but if I'm buying music, it's lossless or nothing. I'm not paying the same price for a CD for a worse experience.…

Have you done a blind A/B test to determine if you can hear the difference between 256 kbit/sec AAC and lossless?

Re: NPR Intern Gets an Earful After Blogging About 11,000 Songs

#80

Post by tptacek »

guelo wrote: post #67
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "the market" when the new channel is based on ignoring contacts and copyrights, any more than it's "the market" that would be acting if I went to my local library, scanned all the books, and then resold them at "Bookio.com".

It's not what you as an individual might do that defines "the market" that pdeuchler refers to, it's how the majority of customers behave. If everybody was doing a lot of book scanning and freely sharing copies book publishers would have to find new business models or perish. If customers don't behave in a way that supports your business model, and you can't talk them into changing their behavior, you need to find a…

This isn't complicated.

Perhaps the music industry does need a new business model. In fact, I'm pretty sure they do!

That does not give the people who disagree with their business model license to cheat the companies.

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