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Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

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Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#141

Post by barista »

cryptoz wrote: post #134
barista wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is delivering an update for those phones too. Additionally there is a promise to support OTA upgrade of all released devices for 18 months. What android phone has that commitment?

> What android phone has that commitment? To the best of my knowledge, all pure Android phones have that, plus more in some cases (the Nexus line). Additionally, many of the higher-end ones from other manufacturers likely do as well.

Source?

and what percentage of android phones are these pure android devices?

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#142

Post by duaneb »

powertower wrote: post #108
sjwright wrote: post #43

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple, he made it really clear that Apple's job wasn't to beat Microsoft. Apple then delivered on that assessment and created entirely new markets for themselves. Sadly, somehow, Microsoft went all XOR on our asses. I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). Microsoft are kings of productiv…

> when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. Every time Zune has been brought up for discussion here, I've seen primarily two types of responses... From people that actually owned a Zune: Fantastic product (better than my Apple iPod) . From people that never owned or tried a Zune: It's absolute crap (I've never seen any of my iPod…

> That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure.

I think it is. I liked the zune myself and would have switched if it could sync with my mac. However, it's undeniable that the Zune was a failure. I think the OP's point remains true.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#143

Post by fidotron »

powertower wrote: post #108
sjwright wrote: post #43

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple, he made it really clear that Apple's job wasn't to beat Microsoft. Apple then delivered on that assessment and created entirely new markets for themselves. Sadly, somehow, Microsoft went all XOR on our asses. I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). Microsoft are kings of productiv…

> when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. Every time Zune has been brought up for discussion here, I've seen primarily two types of responses... From people that actually owned a Zune: Fantastic product (better than my Apple iPod) . From people that never owned or tried a Zune: It's absolute crap (I've never seen any of my iPod…

I had one, and while the Zune devices were great the PC software was the worst media navigation stuff since Sony's MinidiscPC efforts. The sad thing is MS appear to have expanded the Zune PC thing to cover the entire OS.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#144

Post by robomartin »

If Microsoft delivers on the Phone Tablet Desktop connection, with:

  - A decent ecosystem
  - Free from totalitarian-regime control
  - Access and compatibility with a wide range of current hardware devices:
    - USB mice/trackball
    - USB external drives
    - Monitors
    - Keyboards
    - Printers
    - Speakers
    - HID devices
    - Bluetooth without requiring a proprietary chip
    - Non-proprietary peripherals in general
    - USB memory sticks
    - And generally anything that can connect to the device
    - Without requiring the King to bless what you are doing
  - Freedom from the 30% death-tax on mobile devices
  - Freedom to write any app you care to for mobile and tablet without 
    the need for Royal authorization
  - No requirement to buy super-custom-secret chips to do hardware
  - No onerous requirements for expensive approval process on hardware
  - Easy and publisher-controlled app updates
  - Decent device pricing
  - Wide availability
  - Interoperability with existing systems
  - Application compatibility (Desktop  Tablet)
  - Sensible app deployment requirements without having to package megabytes of
    crap you don't need for a phone just because you also want to offer the 
    app on a tablet that has greater resolution.
  - And a few more things I can't think of right now
I, for one, will cast my vote and support their efforts both as a developer and consumer. If anything because I have a very strong feeling that Apple needs serious competition to remain in check. They have taken a far too totalitarian approach to their offerings and it is not getting any better.

Of course, I'll continue to support Apple as well. Just hope they see the light and consider taking off their sometimes-not-so-benevolent-dictator hat.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#145

Post by slowpoke »

robomartin wrote: post #144

If Microsoft delivers on the Phone Tablet Desktop connection, with: - A decent ecosystem - Free from totalitarian-regime control - Access and compatibility with a wide range of current hardware devices: - USB mice/trackball - USB external drives - Monitors - Keyboards - Printers - Speakers - HID devices - Bluetooth without requiring a proprietary chip - Non-proprietary peripherals in general - USB memory sticks - And…

>They have taken a far too totalitarian approach to their offerings and it is not getting any better.

You might have missed the part about Microsoft being equally as eager to lock down everything they can get away with. This isn't going to make things better, it's going to be worse.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#146

Post by swang »

cmelbye wrote: post #132
betterth wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't have to! -- what they just did was screw themselves in the branding (and that's it). They've created a new update, Windows Phone 7.8 that will rollout to current Nokia devices and other Windows Phone 7.5 devices. It will include many of the new UX features, such as the new home page, etc. But as WP8 is changed so much on a fundamental level, it makes no sense to port that to legacy hardware. They're reenv…

Legacy devices means devices from 3-4 years ago for Apple. If I buy a Windows phone today, it won't run the next major version of the OS. I'm just glad I didn't buy a Lumia 900 when my upgrade became available like I planned to.

My original iPad is now legacy barely more than 2 years after it's release. It's last available update is from June 6, 2011. So essentially about 1 year and 2 months of support.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#147

Post by josteink »

illumin8 wrote: post #127
pilgrim689 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"albeit with fewer features than an iPhone 4S" And that's pretty much what's happening with WP7. Windows Phone users are getting an upgrade [1], but it won't be as fully-featured as WP8. Apple just did the slick move of calling both the partial update and the full update by the same name. [1] http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-8-brings-wp8-ui-to-...

So you get a new UI; who cares? What is truly important is application compatibility, and someone with a 3 year old iPhone 3GS will still be able to run brand new apps made for iOS 6.0. On the other hand, someone in a store buying a Nokia Lumia phone today might not be able to run apps released 3 months from now. Don't you see the problem?

and someone with a 3 year old iPhone 3GS will still be able to run brand new apps made for iOS 6.0.

At half the speed or less compared to when the phone was bought, be driven insane and then be forced to buy a new phone.

Or at least that is how I experienced iOS updates while I was still in the iPhone camp.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#148

Post by mrdodge »

barista wrote: post #140
Apple-Guy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's failures extend way far beyond the Zune: http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-de...

Every company has failures and successes. For every a zune there is also xbox, Kinect and PC periferals. For iPad there are Apple TVs and Newtons, etc. What's the point?

Xbox is a failure by almost every financial metric. Microsoft is not anywhere near recouping the initial costs. The entertainment/devices division is rarely profitable and last quarter lost over $200 million.

Re: Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

#149

Post by bztzt »

ConstantineXVI wrote: post #64
daeken wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said that native code is going to be supported. That tells me WinRT will be as well; it's not like people are going to be writing MFC apps for it.

They only seem to be recommending it for games, implying you can't run the UI with it https://skitch.com/constantinexvi/enb3e/windows-phone-summit...

Although they didn't come out and say this, the impression I get is they are bringing over the WinRT APIs for lower-level stuff like networking, etc., while the XAML UI stuff is an extension of the Silverlight in WP7x rather than a port or adaptation of Windows.UI.Xaml from Windows 8.

If that's what they're doing, I think it's the right decision - the UI conventions themselves are different between the phone and Windows 8 (more than people realize, despite having a similar visual aesthetic), so you'd have to rewrite much of the UI anyway - so why break compatibility with WP7.x.

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