A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#361

Post by Animats » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:44 PM UTC

93po wrote: post #359

mlinhares wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3k a month plus what you have to pay to have someone babysit and feed it. this is wild.

I think in a very high cost of living country (Switzerland) this would be good economics if you trained your staff to put stuff in front of it as part of its workflow. I think this would work best if the robot was typically had an empty queue and you could just clear a table and place it directly in front of the robot and walk away. There's lots of brief moments of downtime in a restaurant to do stuff like shuffle a…

This is just the first version of the technology. It could get much cheaper if manufactured in volume, and it can get faster as well. Rule of thumb is that 10x the volume cuts the price by half.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#362

Post by bko » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:44 PM UTC

viccis wrote: post #356

Twirrim wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All effective unions are mandatory. That's a very US centric view. Unions are ample powerful in other countries without requiring mandatory membership. Previous places I've worked in Europe it's not unusual to have multiple unions represented in a company, and even collaborating together on various negotiations. It wasn't unusual for employees to change unions based on what the union was or wasn't doing for them as…

Non-Americans thinking their opinion on American politics is wanted or relevant will never stop being funny. >I've joined unions in the past because of the access to all the other stuff that they can provide, like free legal support, representation in disciplinary situations etc, just as much as working conditions. Apologies if English isn't your first language, but those things are "working conditions"

I'm an American and I think having some union that you never chose to join dock their fees from your pay is the most anti-American thing I can think of.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#363

Post by carlosjobim » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:44 PM UTC

eszed wrote: post #277

massysett wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody has to work to make ends meet Which means that other people who do go to work support those who sit around and do nothing. As someone who works, I have no desire to support people who don't work because they don't have to.

Please notice that you are responding to a position the GP did not take. He said > people can choose whether they work or stay home raising a family, and nobody _has_ to work to make ends meet. Parents who leave paid employment to raise children are far from "sit[ing] around and do[ing] nothing". If we value future conditions (even restricting that calculation only to economic productivity, though I'd argue other con…

How come socialist countries have the lowest birth rates in the history of the world? Even Netherlands. Words are only words, reality is reality.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#364

Post by slow_typist » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:49 PM UTC

ipsento606 wrote: post #324

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it was optional, they would whither away over time. In France unions are optional (in the sense of adhering to one, their presence is highly regulated and a company cannot do anything against that). They are quite strong (depending on the industry), and representatives are elected. If a union does not do anything then it indeed whither away. Now - in our case, some situations are a parody (especially in some pla…

In the US, labor unions are required by federal law to negotiate pay and benefits on behalf of all employees at a particular workplace, rather than just their own members. Because of this requirement, some people argue in favor of permitting mandatory union membership, on the basis that without it, individual workers can free-ride, enjoying the superior pay and benefits the union negotiates on their behalf without jo…

It is of course odd but no sane employer will treat non-members worse than members, otherwise there would be a direct incentive to join the union.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#365

Post by CuriousCosmic » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:52 PM UTC

CrazyStat wrote: post #355

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a very US centric view It is of course however it can be argued that the US is somewhat of a unique case here. To quote wikipedia (which itself is citing three other sources in this quote's case) > According to labor historians, the US has the most violent labor history of any industrialized nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_St... So the US has a bit of a unique history here.…

> A less than fun example of this is that the organized labor holiday "May Day" is celebrated in many countries notably excluding the US. Because the US already had Labor Day in September, which predates the May 1 celebration.

That's quite a simplification.

Labor day didn't become a holiday until after the May Day vs Labor Day debate started. It started as a concept in 1882 but it was not yet celebrated in any significant capacity and most unions pushed to change the day to May day after the Haymarket massacre in 1886. The first state to make it a holiday (Oregon) didn't do so until a year after the debate was already ongoing and it wouldn't become a federal holiday until 1894.

Specifically the federal government pushed for Labor day over May day and chose to commemorate the one and not the other with a federal holiday because of fears that memorialising the Haymarket massacre would further empower the labor movement which was at its peak in the US at the time.

And then in the 1950s the US government would then try to further overwrite May Day with "Loyalty Day" in a McCarthyian attempt to limit May Day's celebration.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#366

Post by listenallyall » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:52 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #77

antisthenes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the full time wage can't result in a decent living (housing, food, medical expenses, clothes, feed and clothe a kid or two, and put away a little on the side) then it clearly is too little. I have seen this meme repeated a lot, e.g. any full time job should automatically provide for a LOT of shit that used to require 2 incomes, or a stay-at-home mom to take care of it. Now the goalposts have moved to provide for…

is your alternative that someone washing dishes is not entitled to have and support kids? I would ask you - do you have evidence to show that lowering wages benefits anyone other than the employer? Look at the Nordic countries. Paying everyone a minimum wage and creating a societal safety where education is free and everyone has access to the tools to better themselves results in staggeringly good outcomes.

Public K-12 education is free in the United States. Any thoughts on why the outcomes aren't "staggeringly good?"

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#367

Post by mckn1ght » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 8:59 PM UTC

ginknocab wrote: post #229

nehal3m wrote: post #66

I was a dishy for years in a few different restaurants and hotels. It's hard work but if you do your best to help out the kitchen and wait staff wherever you can (picking up ingredients, helping mise en place, fetching dish carts yourself, stocking bar) then you can really make a difference in the day to day. Sometimes I miss the camaraderie. It's an easy industry to get stuck in though, and there's usually a lot of…

I got stuck a long time in restaurants from around 18 years old to right at 30. Finally got out and move to the construction industry. I'm just wondering what exactly Aguilar did in construction that's definitely harder than some high volume fast paced kitchens. Only thing I can come up with is most likely roofing, especially during the summer, because everything else I've been through in construction is easier. "I a…

I worked about 12 years in restaurants, held every job besides mgmt level, including one of the hardest being an upscale dive bar with actually decent food and a sparkling kitchen (read: lots of elbow grease), where the cooks also had to wash dishes, there was no dedicated position for that. I’ve worked in kitchens that maintained over 100°F ambient temps next to pizza ovens wearing long sleeved chef jackets. Kitchens where we dragged pieces of ovens, stoves and entire coolers/shelves outside after every Sunday brunch to power wash them.

I also worked for a week one summer with an uncle who laid brick. We built a chimney on a two story house. Mixing concrete and mortar in mixers and wheelbarrows and getting it to the work spots, carrying bricks around, carrying 100 lb sections of flue up half finished stairs and ladders.

No comparison. I never slept better in my life than that week. Hardest work I’ve ever experienced.

I’m sure construction, like foodservice, has easier and harder jobs. But I’d be willing to bet the hardest construction job is way harder than the hardest foodservice job. Not to mention more dangerous.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#368

Post by mckn1ght » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #294

ginknocab wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got stuck a long time in restaurants from around 18 years old to right at 30. Finally got out and move to the construction industry. I'm just wondering what exactly Aguilar did in construction that's definitely harder than some high volume fast paced kitchens. Only thing I can come up with is most likely roofing, especially during the summer, because everything else I've been through in construction is easier. "I a…

The difference between construction and the kitchen is that if I mess up in the kitchen we're out probably less than $100. If I mess up in construction we're out significantly more in particular if it's a commercial construction job.

There is another kind of mistake than can be made besides procedural.

My worst safety screwups in foodservice were 2 things: cutting through my fingernail and about 2/3 of my entire fingertip with a brand new chefs knife (looked away at somebody barking something in my ear while rapidly chiffonading basil) and plunging my entire hand into a deep fryer (slipped while wiping down the edge of the oil vat–again, rushing).

I’ve heard way worse stories coming out of construction. People breaking backs, having hands pulled into machinery… my mistakes have healed, theirs are permanently disfiguring.

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#369

Post by BrandoElFollito » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 9:06 PM UTC

ipsento606 wrote: post #324

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it was optional, they would whither away over time. In France unions are optional (in the sense of adhering to one, their presence is highly regulated and a company cannot do anything against that). They are quite strong (depending on the industry), and representatives are elected. If a union does not do anything then it indeed whither away. Now - in our case, some situations are a parody (especially in some pla…

In the US, labor unions are required by federal law to negotiate pay and benefits on behalf of all employees at a particular workplace, rather than just their own members. Because of this requirement, some people argue in favor of permitting mandatory union membership, on the basis that without it, individual workers can free-ride, enjoying the superior pay and benefits the union negotiates on their behalf without jo…

In France all unions negotiate joinly for all employees. It is strictly forbidden for an employer to have different treatment of an employee depending on whether they are members of a union. Membership is not public anyway.

About 10% of the workforce is unionized and only a few percent of the unions funds come from the members. The rest is from companies (mandatory fund), the region, ...

Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)

#370

Post by TuringNYC » Wed, Aug 28, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #360

viccis wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All effective unions are mandatory. They represent the interests of the mass of workers there, and they wield that collective power against two groups who would be happy to take food out of their mouths if they could get away with it: their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. So if you want to join a company and enjoy the benefits that a u…

> their employer and new employees who need a job enough that they are willing to work for less money or worse conditions. What if I want to work for my employer but only for more money? Suppose I'm a rockstar and my employer agrees, but their hands are tied because they can't pay me more and have to instead pay off the pension funds of people that retired a decade ago and older employees

>> What if I want to work for my employer but only for more money? Suppose I'm a rockstar and my employer agrees, but their hands are tied because they can't pay me more and have to instead pay off the pension funds of people that retired a decade ago and older employees

Eventually situations like this bankrupt a company, sadly due to decisions made decades ago. Just because a company's hands are tied does not mean that current employees need to take sub-market wages. They can, if they are being compensated in some other way (unique experience, growth potential, etc) but normally people see the writing on the wall and walk away. Also, company management needs to negotiate contracts which are fair to all three parties -- owners, current union members, future employees who will bear the burden. It is a tough but important balancing act.