My summer as a dishwasher made it clear tipping, already deeply stupid, is wildly unfair even to service workers.
A lot of people helped you get your meal, but your dishwasher is definitely not tipped.
A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
71–80 of 496 posts
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#72My summer as a dishwasher made it clear tipping, already deeply stupid, is wildly unfair even to service workers. A lot of people helped you get your meal, but your dishwasher is definitely not tipped.
I thought that tipping is mainly to enable the restaurant owner to avoid paying their workers properly.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What generates more value - a good thought that can steer a product or a company in a better direction, or a pile of clean dishes? The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless without workers to actually provide value people want to pay for. > Value is disconnected to the difficulty involved in producing it. Human labor is the source of all value. If you're handin…
I'm quite disappointed that you're willing to lift your ideas wholesale from a French communist [0] unless of course by "Capital" you mean "Das Kapital" in which case it's the original, German one [1]. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and read up on the theory of people who disagree with you. Specifically: > The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless witho…
> Improving the work of 100 people by 1% is worth a hell of a lot more than a clean dish, no matter how society is organized.
Not if the benefits of this marginal productivity increase are hoarded by a small subset of society: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupling_of_wages_from_produ... You don't need to listen to communists to figure this out—you can just read Schumpeter.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#74The "heart," but the only mention of pay is $10/hour, and advancement leads to more long nights as a chef in the volatile restaurant industry? Such respect Edit: also, the lip service of the title "porter" - the electric company will surely except that as payment
Honest question, what should they be paid? Its purely manual labor, there is not much if anything to innovate or be creative. The output is fairly binary, clean or not clean. I am all for fair wages but how do we know if $10 is the right price or too low? Interesting how serious questions get so quickly downvoted. I am genuinely curious how you would price a dishwasher when the output is important but the work itself…
> how do we know if $10 is the right price or too low?
We don't. It's the market's job to determine the wage. If the wage is too low, then businesses won't be able to find the people they need.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the job is unskilled (i.e. you can train the next person to do it in less than one hour) and you have several people standing in line to take it if the person doing it, quits; then the current wage is clearly enough. It is just like the price of the meal. If it costs more than people are willing to pay, then it is too expensive; regardless of what you personally think it should cost.
Sure, divide and conquer is the prerequisite to allow the non-working-class to exploit actual labor. I say human dignity is non-negotiable. So there should be a legal minimum wage which is automatically adjusted to the living prices of wherever the person you hire is expected to work. If you are unable (or worse: unwilling ) to pay people enough to survive of your work, you are irresponsible and a leech on society th…
This makes the assumption that all workers require a living wage. When I worked as a teenager and throughout college, I didn't need to make a living wage since I either lived with my parents or with roommates (admittedly funded by a combination of work and student loans). During that phase of my life, I didn't require a living wage. I just needed some extra money, and so I was willing to accept lower paying jobs that wouldn't necessarily support every expense. Someone who required a living wage couldn't have worked those jobs, but they were perfect for me, so I was glad they existed at the time.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree with your sentiment, that logic doesn't hold. If the wage for a job is too low to afford life, then we can say either the job is underpaid or the job is fairly compensated but simply not worth doing. If dishwashers quit in numbers for other jobs, dishwasher pay would have to rise if restaurants can afford it, or the restaurant industry would wither, and from an economic point of view, deservedly so. Of…
> Of course, this theory works best in a dynamic economy where people and capital can move around with a minimum amount of friction. This assumption is akin to a spherical cow, frictionless surface, etc. In the real world capital and people won't ever move around with a minimum amount of friction, nor will people retrain for other jobs easily.
Dishwashers can easily move to other low-wage jobs if they exist
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the full time wage can't result in a decent living (housing, food, medical expenses, clothes, feed and clothe a kid or two, and put away a little on the side) then it clearly is too little. Edit: Check out https://livingwage.mit.edu/ for examples based on real-world data.
> If the full time wage can't result in a decent living (housing, food, medical expenses, clothes, feed and clothe a kid or two, and put away a little on the side) then it clearly is too little. I have seen this meme repeated a lot, e.g. any full time job should automatically provide for a LOT of shit that used to require 2 incomes, or a stay-at-home mom to take care of it. Now the goalposts have moved to provide for…
is your alternative that someone washing dishes is not entitled to have and support kids?
I would ask you - do you have evidence to show that lowering wages benefits anyone other than the employer?
Look at the Nordic countries. Paying everyone a minimum wage and creating a societal safety where education is free and everyone has access to the tools to better themselves results in staggeringly good outcomes.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#78I wash dishes by hand as we've got a small kitchen, but one thing I've noticed is that dishwasher machines leave a unique taste/smell that can be noticed when drinking water from washed glasses. It's so much nicer to use a glass that's been hand-washed.
Maybe they used those pods or the no streak additive.
I use the dishwasher for glasses most of the time and haven't noticed any difference, but all i use is the cheapest powder/gel and only half of what fills up that little slot.
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
The taste is usually the Rinsing Aid, aka Drying Agent, not the detergent. It's an additional chemical is sprayed on the dishes towards the end of the cycle, to aid drying without creating spots. The chemical remains on the dishes.
I'm quite surprised the majority of people are fine with drinking that stuff. Not just because it noticeably changes the taste of beverages but because it's covered in chemicals and people are fine with it mixing together with their beverage. Our rinse aid is disabled on our dishwasher.
I have never had to use rinse aid until recently. I needed to buy a new dishwashers, and it didn't have a heated element for drying (for energy efficiency reasons). Without rinseaid, things stay wet.
I tried to do some research on the safety of the chemical, but couldn't find anything online
Re: A dishwasher can make or break a restaurant (2017)
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much? Enough to live within 10 miles of the place they are working at sithout having to pinch pennies, while being able to safe something for the future. Sure it isn't a complicated job — but without it the likes of us would not be able to enjoy going to a restaurant. And it is a job that would be both mentally and physically too exhausting for many people. Let's stop doing as if jobs like these are not real jobs…
How did we go from asking what is the proper wage to suggesting its "not a real job"? All jobs are real but some are less valuable than others. There is nothing wrong with being a grocery store stocker your whole life but I am not sure how you set the wage for a 5+ year worker that never moved on/up from stocking shelves. I think its a fairly difficult problem to answer and throwing in classism and white collar vs bl…
I don't think answering that problem isn't at all especially if you feel human dignity is a value that should be honored above all other rights. And I don't think many people disagree that to work a full time job and be unable to live off it in the area it is located in is undignified.
Now markets have shown time and time again that precisely that human dignity is ignored within market logic (just as other externalities like air quality, a unpoisioned environment or the rights of future generations). Given the markets inability to honor human dignity I suggest regulating this part of it by mandating a minimum wage that is a living wage and keep that wage updated at least on a yearly basis. Not a radical thing to demand.
A real job is one that allows you to lead a dignified life. Being okay with essential jobs being paid below that wage is a problematic stance to take for various reasons and comes across as an egoistic stance to me (e.g. imagine someone saying: "While I enjoy cheap and good coffee, I don't want the batista who made it to afford to live off it.")
There are not many reasons to say that, but all of them are to some degree egoistic. You might be a star bucks manager that makes a good living off your workers earning less. You might be a customer that wants to pay as little as possible and is okay to ignore the exploitation. Or you might think this is market logic and go like "they simply have to find another job" (thus admitting it is not a real job anybody should expect to live from).
Now my stance — just like yours if I got that right — is that all jobs are real jobs.