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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#221

Post by flerchin »

jgwil2 wrote: post #163
flerchin wrote: post #3

It needs to be clear if I'm shafting a sub-minimum wage worker, or declining an egregious tip-ask at the self-check counter.

You're never causing a sub-minimum wage worker to get less than the minimum wage, because their employers are required by law to make up the difference if they don't make minimum wage with their tips. You're only "shafting" them in the sense that they are expecting to do far better than minimum wage.

If you had ever worked sub-minimum wage you would know that this is total bollocks. In practice, employers never, not ever, make up the difference.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#222

Post by next_xibalba »

manuelmoreale wrote: post #140
next_xibalba wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

Potentially very stupid question: should I add a tip % on my invoices as a freelance developer?

I know this is supposed to be funny, but it is so non sequitur as to be uninterpretable. What are you getting at?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#223

Post by voxic11 »

hiatus wrote: post #192
voxic11 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should I not be tipping for normal service? Its pretty confusing because in my country tipping seems to be the expected default, not something reserved to exceptional circumstances.

Do you similarly tip your phone company, or electricity provider?

Do you if the service is exceptional?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#224

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #22
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #8

I assume business would just lower the amount they pay, since tips would be worth more.

Businesses already pay the exact minimum wage of $2.13/hour. The employees either make an additional $5.12/hour in tips or the employer must make up the difference at every pay period. Employees routinely underreport their tip earnings beyond the $5.12/hour to not pay taxes and fly under the DoL radar. Edit: I should add that lots of states and some cities have their own minimum wage laws but they are all structured…

Wow, that is a f**d up system, that employers can pay less than minimum wage if the employees do a good job.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#225

Post by manuelmoreale »

next_xibalba wrote: post #222
manuelmoreale wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially very stupid question: should I add a tip % on my invoices as a freelance developer?

I know this is supposed to be funny, but it is so non sequitur as to be uninterpretable. What are you getting at?

I’m not getting at anything. I’m literally asking if you think I should be adding a % tip to my invoices as a freelance dev.

And if the answer is no, why not? I’m providing a service after all am I not?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#226

Post by throaway728 »

settsu wrote: post #186
throaway827 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in high-tip jobs, you can count on the tips to be stable virtually every night

That seems like a highly presumptive gamble. And, as referenced elsewhere, it isn't the right argument against pushing for progress in pay equity. I'll admit up front that I'm simply not going to see eye-to-eye with anyone who thinks a system is acceptable or sustainable that requires subjugation of many for income maximization for a very few. There's FAR too much capital in play for me to feel bad at slightly less c…

it’s not an argument for or against, it’s just a statement of fact

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#227

Post by rangerelf »

unethical_ban wrote: post #90
rangerelf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe. Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep…

No. The definition of bribe applies to instances where law or merit are overridden by money or favors.

It's not, or at least not always.

Most of the time it's to get them to actually do their job; shitty pay, bad or nonexistent oversight, corruption (or just "bribes") in higher levels too, conditionally applied rules, etc...

That creates a de-facto auction for their time and service, you (and what you're adding on top) vs. everyone else (and what they are adding on top). There's an unofficial "price list" depending on how quick and thorough you want things to be done.

"Tipping culture" easily slides into "bribing culture" when it becomes an expectation, regardless of what the Supreme Court says about it.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#228

Post by maerF0x0 »

dontlikeyoueith wrote: post #151
amflare wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Compensation should reflect value received. This idea effectively forces a business to subsidize their employees, because you damn sure can't pass all that to the customer (because then we are just back where we started, just with an extra 0 on every transaction). Small businesses and business with low profit margins will be forced out of business. And this would consolidate capital into the hands of…

> Small businesses and business with low profit margins will be forced out of business. Bad businesses that don't create enough value to justify their existence will be forced out of business. That's a good thing.

I agree with you about the latter half of the sentence. But no business should be punished simply for being small.

I'd go so far as to say we should create laws that err on the side of "slightly favor the little guy" because, as I think we all know, big businesses have armies of lawyers, PR firms, and PACs that bend reality to their whims, whereas little ones mostly do not (though in theory they could band together for the same goal it's unlikely to happen if only for administrative issues).

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