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Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

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Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#131

Post by delbronski »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #130
delbronski wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t say anti-innovation. The EU just places more value on protecting workers/consumers than businesses. I can understand that to a lot of Americans a government that tries to protect its people from businesses may not make sense. But most of us in this side of the world cheer on when big companies like Apple have to bend to the EU. Yes, even if it makes starting my own business more difficult. As a European en…

> The EU just places more value on protecting workers/consumers than businesses This is flagrantly bullshit, unless you're claiming that there's some sort of intellectual and moral difference in European human beings because... reasons... The EU is as corporatist and protectionist of big business as it's possible to be, it just hides it (poorly) behind a number of veils while throwing moral-sounding legalisms at cert…

>This is flagrantly bullshit, unless you're claiming that there's some sort of intellectual and moral difference in European human beings because... reasons...

There is most certainly a cultural difference. I’ve lived in the USA for 10+ years. My “self-indulgent and smugly” European opinion is that the average American is a lot more individualistic than the average European. Which could partly explain why they just see things differently. Why is it such a scandalous thought that our morals and priorities are just different?

> The EU is as corporatist and protectionist of big business as it's possible to be…

I disagree. I’m more optimistic. There are a lot of good people and organizations within the EU working very hard to level the playing field. A lot of good work has been done. I can certainly say that I prefer being an employee and consumer in the EU, which is the reason I moved back here. Compared to the States, yes I think the EU deserves the pedestal. No doubt.

>Does your snuggly self-indulgent…

No, I’ve met many hard working honest American Entrepreneurs. But big businesses, yeah, for sure they want to squeeze the American labour force and consumers for every last penny. Just like big EU businesses do. The difference is that our governments are doing something about it.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#132

Post by asqueella »

hn1986 wrote: post #128
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #57

The EU has proven itself time and time again to be so openly anti-innovation that it’s difficult to even take legislation like the Digital Services Act seriously. None of my products operate in the EU and for good reason. I have no interest in playing the legal games required to support them. I wish I more fully understood the cultural differences that make this anti-innovation stance so prevalent in the EU.

This is no different than a tor server getting raid because it's hosting CSAM. Telegram CEO was arrested bc he did nothing to control the amount of CSAM in the public channels he was hosting. People on HN are sadly very misinformed on this issue. https://www.ft.com/content/196fbc63-b311-4e9f-bd6a-ffcc7e2a6...

Please educate us. The article you linked only has these two bits, as far as I can see:

> Ofmin, a French police agency set up last year focused on preventing violence against minors, said on Monday that Durov is alleged to have failed to adequately moderate criminal activity.

> “At the heart of this issue is the lack of moderation and co-operation by the platform (which has nearly 1 billion users), particularly in the fight against child sex crimes,” Jean-Michel Bernigaud, the secretary-general of Ofmin, wrote on LinkedIn on Monday.

And:

> Durov has taken a hands-off approach to moderation and cast the app as unassailable by governments. However, some researchers have warned that it has become a hub for illicit activity and extremism as a result.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#133

Post by ratg13 »

spwa4 wrote: post #22
amelius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that justify it then?

It shows what the EU action is about. It's not about telegram's supposed crimes, whatever you think they are, because other platforms are full of the same crimes. The difference is that other platforms give EU states access to people's private messages. If you go into the technicalities of what EXACTLY this means, it started with a list of 27 organizations that got blanket access, without judicial oversight (because…

Why do you think this is an EU action and not just France?

France has much tougher laws on this than the rest of the EU.

In fact when publishing to the App Store as a developer you are primarily asked 2 questions.

1) What types of encryption you implement

2) Whether you are planning on making your app available in France

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#134

Post by justinclift »

peripitea wrote: post #124
justinclift wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proving the point of the commenter you're replying to. ;) They're pointing out that "richness" comes from measuring all parts of a person's life. But you immediately revert to talking about only money. It's super ironic.

I'm just pointing out how implausible the claim is that the vast majority of Americans are far worse off than Spaniards. Of course there's more to life than money and GDP/capita is an imperfect measure, but the median American leads a very comfortable life.

> I'm just pointing out how implausible the claim is that the vast majority of Americans are far worse off than Spaniards.

Perhaps you have the wrong idea about Spaniards?

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#135

Post by southernplaces7 »

delbronski wrote: post #131
southernplaces7 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU just places more value on protecting workers/consumers than businesses This is flagrantly bullshit, unless you're claiming that there's some sort of intellectual and moral difference in European human beings because... reasons... The EU is as corporatist and protectionist of big business as it's possible to be, it just hides it (poorly) behind a number of veils while throwing moral-sounding legalisms at cert…

>This is flagrantly bullshit, unless you're claiming that there's some sort of intellectual and moral difference in European human beings because... reasons... There is most certainly a cultural difference. I’ve lived in the USA for 10+ years. My “self-indulgent and smugly” European opinion is that the average American is a lot more individualistic than the average European. Which could partly explain why they just s…

You say the EU deserves the pedestal? The same EU that maneuvers for things like this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41341353

Or the same EU that's pushing and pushing for encryption and fundamental privacy prohibitions?

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#136

Post by delbronski »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #135
delbronski wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is flagrantly bullshit, unless you're claiming that there's some sort of intellectual and moral difference in European human beings because... reasons... There is most certainly a cultural difference. I’ve lived in the USA for 10+ years. My “self-indulgent and smugly” European opinion is that the average American is a lot more individualistic than the average European. Which could partly explain why they just s…

You say the EU deserves the pedestal? The same EU that maneuvers for things like this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41341353 Or the same EU that's pushing and pushing for encryption and fundamental privacy prohibitions?

A Russian billionaire arrested in France after repeatedly ignoring French authorities. I am sure there is a whole lot more to that story than any of us could even possibly imagine. Specially given the state of things today. Maybe France is completely in the wrong here, maybe not. We just don't have enough information to jump to any conclusions.

Look, I'm not saying the EU is perfect. We have our own lot of crazy and corrupt politicians to deal with. I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of why the EU sucks. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

I'm saying that in my personal opinion based on my life experience, the EU is doing a lot more than the US when it comes to passing laws that benefit consumers and workers as oppose to businesses. And that's not something I just read in a news headline. It is something I have personally experienced as a person that lived in both places.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#137

Post by aa_is_op »

miohtama wrote: post #42
aa_is_op wrote: post #2

"It is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner are responsible for abuse of that platform." What an utter ridiculous and misleading statement from the company that LITERALLY REFUSES to take down drug and malware shops from its platform. There's tens of academic studies that have looked at this problem and many of them have Telegram as the worst offender. Here's just one of the studies: https://cyber.fsi.stanford…

Telegram does not refuse take down content. I have reported scams, phishing, selling stolen credit cards and such to Telegram and they have all taken down. Maybe not in 24h, but still taken down. Also from your study: “Our investigation finds that large networks of accounts, purportedly operated by minors, are openly advertising SG-CSAM for sale on social media. Instagram has emerged as the primary platform for such…

Yes, it does. The Dutch government literally held a meeting on the topic of Telegram hosting reams of CP and revenge porn and not acting on any of their complaints for 2 years now.

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#138

Post by asqueella »

aa_is_op wrote: post #137
miohtama wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram does not refuse take down content. I have reported scams, phishing, selling stolen credit cards and such to Telegram and they have all taken down. Maybe not in 24h, but still taken down. Also from your study: “Our investigation finds that large networks of accounts, purportedly operated by minors, are openly advertising SG-CSAM for sale on social media. Instagram has emerged as the primary platform for such…

Yes, it does. The Dutch government literally held a meeting on the topic of Telegram hosting reams of CP and revenge porn and not acting on any of their complaints for 2 years now.

I reported a drug bot yesterday, and it's taken down already. It's weird that the Dutch government is ignored like that.

I tried Googling (without knowing Dutch I found these: https://archive.is/dGp2w https://www.inhope.org/EN/articles/tackling-csam-hosting-in-... ) and I guess the difference is that I'm talking about public bots/channels, and the problem lies with private chats / groups?

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#139

Post by jononor »

peripitea wrote: post #124
justinclift wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proving the point of the commenter you're replying to. ;) They're pointing out that "richness" comes from measuring all parts of a person's life. But you immediately revert to talking about only money. It's super ironic.

I'm just pointing out how implausible the claim is that the vast majority of Americans are far worse off than Spaniards. Of course there's more to life than money and GDP/capita is an imperfect measure, but the median American leads a very comfortable life.

The median spaniard will have fewer working hours, more holidays, more paternity leave, lower risk of abruptly loosing their job, have a longer life expectancy, less likely to struggle with extreme medical bills, need to put away less money for children schooling, etc?

Re: Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act

#140

Post by aa_is_op »

asqueella wrote: post #138
aa_is_op wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does. The Dutch government literally held a meeting on the topic of Telegram hosting reams of CP and revenge porn and not acting on any of their complaints for 2 years now.

I reported a drug bot yesterday, and it's taken down already. It's weird that the Dutch government is ignored like that. I tried Googling (without knowing Dutch I found these: https://archive.is/dGp2w https://www.inhope.org/EN/articles/tackling-csam-hosting-in-... ) and I guess the difference is that I'm talking about public bots/channels, and the problem lies with private chats / groups?

>I reported a drug bot yesterday, and it's taken down already.

Yes, random internet person. I believe what you say, and not totally making it up just to win an internet argument.

I actually work in cybersecurity. I think I know how Telegram's support team reacts, which is not react at all.

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