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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#151

Post by dontlikeyoueith »

amflare wrote: post #114
maerF0x0 wrote: post #54

IMO there should be a CoL adjusted minimum livable wage across the country, and it should be illegal to pay a >18 year old less than what it takes to live on. And that should be calculated from the barest minimum living standards[1]. At a certain point it becomes unconscionable for a wealthy society not to provide pure commodities at their lowest cost of delivery to it's poorest. As we do that, tips should be elimina…

Absolutely not. Compensation should reflect value received. This idea effectively forces a business to subsidize their employees, because you damn sure can't pass all that to the customer (because then we are just back where we started, just with an extra 0 on every transaction). Small businesses and business with low profit margins will be forced out of business. And this would consolidate capital into the hands of…

> Small businesses and business with low profit margins will be forced out of business.

Bad businesses that don't create enough value to justify their existence will be forced out of business.

That's a good thing.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#152

Post by nitwit005 »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49
throw_m239339 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

It's 100% a socially accepted form of bribery.

It's irrelevant if you pay people before or after. You can't tip the police after they perform some sort of service. You're still trying to influence them with money.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#153

Post by tacticalturtle »

NotACop182 wrote: post #36
nickfromseattle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest seems like who is paying the "tip". If it's your employer, it's taxable compensation. If it's a customer, than it could be a tip. Then there would probably be a bunch of sub-bullet points defining whether a tip is taxable depending on whether you have a direct relationship with the customer tipping you, whether the "tip" is mandatory, or at the discretion of the customer, are you in X roles (e.g. barista)…

Easier way is to put a cap on how much you make. Let’s say 70k. Make more you don’t get the exemption prevents the rich from gaming the system. Also define tips by industry. Service sector. End of story.

If you put a cap on income, then both you and the IRS need to maintain a record of the tips you received, to prove that you’re on the right side of the cap.

I don’t think that saves much in administration costs.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#154

Post by OptionOfT »

Tips, and in general, taxes and fees should become part of the advertised. It should not be on the consumer to be guilt tripped into paying for a living wage of server, nor to be guilt tripped into a 3% healthcare surcharge, or to be deceived by seeing a price advertised, only to have to pay a whole bunch more because of added fees.

I can understand the justification for taxes to be separate, I don't like it, but I get it.

But the 'fuel surcharge' / 'healthcare fee' / ... should be part of your price. How can I compare 2 places if they get to advertise super low prices, only to make it up with self-imposed fees?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#155

Post by nitwit005 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

Stop using the term "tipping culture". It's not as if people spontaniously decided they wanted to tip more.

What you're upset at is good old fashioned corporate greed.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#156

Post by IcyWindows »

flerchin wrote: post #77
imgabe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tip standing up. If you're ordering at a counter, that's not a tipped job. What are you even tipping for anyway? You haven't gotten your food yet, they're not bringing anything to you, it makes no sense. If the conceit of tips is that they incentivize good service, then tipping before you receive the service is nonsensical.

I guess I'm tipping so that I don't get "additions" to my order.

Sounds like tipping is a form of bribe and protection money

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#157

Post by tacticalturtle »

nerdjon wrote: post #130

I am honestly curious who was really pushing this? Unless I missed it I don't think I heard anything about no taxes on tips until both candidates suddenly supported it. So just seems like it came out of nowhere. If we really are going to stick with tips, I think it's fine. Maybe it will fix some of the issues on the workers side temporarily. But we honestly just need to move away from tipping in the US. Give everyone…

Trump heard a waitress in Las Vegas complain about tip taxes, so he proposed it:

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/11/nx-s1-5071144/no-tax-on-tips-...

> Trump has been campaigning on the "no tax on tips" policy since June, after a Las Vegas server told him the government was taking too big of a cut from her tipped wages.

Then Harris was forced to match. That’s pretty much it. There’s no economic analysis behind it.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#158

Post by manuelmoreale »

OptionOfT wrote: post #154

Tips, and in general, taxes and fees should become part of the advertised. It should not be on the consumer to be guilt tripped into paying for a living wage of server, nor to be guilt tripped into a 3% healthcare surcharge, or to be deceived by seeing a price advertised, only to have to pay a whole bunch more because of added fees. I can understand the justification for taxes to be separate, I don't like it, but I g…

This is one of those cultural differences that are so hard for me to even comprehend.

The idea of living in a place where the price I see written is not the one I’m going to pay for is so bizarre.

Like it doesn’t make any rational sense given the context I grew up in.

Still, reading this entire discussion is a reminder that societies can be incredibly different even in the most mundane of things like going to get a coffee.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#159

Post by numpad0 »

I'm from culture where tips don't generally exist, at least for common folks. Waiters are paid >=minimum wages, and most don't like pocketing cash at work.

You can just call any of staffers and make orders, around here, in most casual restaurants. You don't have to wait for your waiter to come back around, the guy carrying that platter of steaming hot lobster has his wireless POS tablet that works for any table and he'd be tsk happy to take your orders because he's paid only by hours and not stealing his colleagues' income by doing so.

In restaurant owner's perspective, it makes waiters way more scalable, easier to overcommit, and also reduces loss of sales from I/O timeouts; any workers can notice empty glasses and collect upsells. To waiters, it gives more stable source of income, which may or may not be plenty, but stability is always nice. To customers, it works like mentioned above.

Isn't this better use of everyone's time?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#160

Post by settsu »

next_xibalba wrote: post #78
kitkat_new wrote: post #27

tips should be banned not only is it a shitty source of income, it also exposes you to sexism, racism and makes you tolerate shit things, because your income could be at risk standing up for yourself.

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

I've never worked full-time since I was 16 but never a job where tipping was the norm (I'm in the US) so maybe I'm missing something obvious but isn't a stable income preferable? And where is the assumption coming from that doing away with tips invariably requires making less money?
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