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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#141

Post by _yb2s »

stonogo wrote: post #132
_yb2s wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense.... I lived on under 10k/year for close to a decade in rural Oregon- a while enough ago that that would be about $14k/year now adjusted for inflation. I had a decent 2 bedroom apartment, two older but reliable cars I got for nearly free at auto auctions and a fast motorcycle, and cooked my own meals 3x/day from top quality local farmers market ingredients. I'm talking REALLY good food, the best quality fresh…

I think if you look you'll find that housing costs have rapidly outpaced inflation, even in rural Oregon. Studio flats in La Grande are approaching a thousand dollars a month. I believe what you're saying is true, but I don't think the experiment could be replicated today.

You're probably right- I had a nice place much bigger than I needed and walking distance from work in one of the more expensive and desirable rural Oregon small towns for under $400/month!

However, there are places more affordable than Oregon... I recently looked at home prices in the Mobile, AL area and it looks like you can buy a livable 3 bedroom home for ~$60k there- that could be about $400/mo for a mortgage.

If one has the skills and knowledge to do so, you can still live very cheap on a boat almost anywhere- I know a lot of people with incomes in this range living on well maintained ~30 foot sailboats, even in the SF Bay area.

A lot of what I'm talking about is substituting skills and free time for income. If you are good at DIY stuff, cooking, etc. you can live better for cheap. I only have those skills because I grew up upper middle class, and had parents that taught them to me- and I was in boy scouts, etc. You also have to have a lot of free time- if you're making $14k/year part time with no kids, it's totally different than if you're working full time and have kids- although the minimum deduction and poverty line will be higher with kids.

I have friends that grew up poor with absent parents, and their lives are much more expensive than mine in many ways- they can't maintain an older car so they have to buy a newer one, they can't cook so they eat out more, etc.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#142

Post by dontlikeyoueith »

golergka wrote: post #121
FigurativeVoid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say this is ridiculous, until I read Snyder v. United States[1,2]. > Held: Section 666 proscribes bribes to state and local officials but does not make it a crime for those officials to accept gratuities for their past acts. Pp. 7–16. 1. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf . 2. https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/snyder-v-united-...

I think a difference between a bribe and gratitude is pretty obvious. If the official had prior knowledge that he would receive an award, its a bribe. If he had no reason to expect it before making a decision, it's gratitude.

[flagged]

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#143

Post by barbazoo »

gosub100 wrote: post #103
debacle wrote: post #62

The US is in desperate need of a labor movement. The Democrats dance with the UAW and are deeply tied to the AFT/NEA, but most labor unions in the US are getting the crap beat out of them and both parties turn a blind eye. It's good that more unions are speaking with/to Republicans, but what is really needed is a dedicated workers' party.

I know this is a naive question, but I don't know why it's so difficult to start a union in the age of online communities. For instance there are dedicated forums and subreddits for e.g. Uber eats and Amazon delivery and Walmart and all the grueling, exploitative jobs. They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as uni…

Have a look at the process for unionization: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections.

For instance it's per workplace and there's a threshold of how much support among the workers you need, etc. It's not just something you join and then you're in a union.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#144

Post by n_ary »

kcb wrote: post #113
unethical_ban wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McDonalds kiosks, besides being a harbinger of a future devoid of contact with service workers, is an objectively awful experience. The menu is gigantic, it upsells constantly, the screen is buggy, and the food delivery folks don't use the numbers half the time.

Wild to me given the processing power cheaply available that those touchscreens also feel unresponsive and laggy.

On the contrary, I believe they are intentionally laggy to rate-limit the orders, so that people in line can get pissed at the person in front of them rather than the waiter/server taking time to prepare and package the order. Also avoids overwhelming the counter.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#145

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

jjice wrote: post #110
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

I was at a small train station in New England heading to Boston with a friend a few weeks ago. We each got a bottle of water. $5 each (should have seen that coming), but the real shocker was that the convenience store inside the train station asked for a tip on the terminal. On the $5 bottles of water we picked up and brought to the counter. The absurdity there makes me feel like I'm in Waiting for Godot.

It is ridiculous. If they want to increase the price by 15% then just do that, but don't pretend you're not by just asking for a 15% tip instead (for the pleasure of using the self-checkout terminal).

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#146

Post by nitwit005 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #78
kitkat_new wrote: post #27

tips should be banned not only is it a shitty source of income, it also exposes you to sexism, racism and makes you tolerate shit things, because your income could be at risk standing up for yourself.

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

Yes, there will be some people who are tipped an unusually high amount who will lose out.

But almost any significant policy or social change will have an impact like that. You have to basically give up on fixing anything if you're not willing to impact anyone.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#147

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

gosub100 wrote: post #103
debacle wrote: post #62

The US is in desperate need of a labor movement. The Democrats dance with the UAW and are deeply tied to the AFT/NEA, but most labor unions in the US are getting the crap beat out of them and both parties turn a blind eye. It's good that more unions are speaking with/to Republicans, but what is really needed is a dedicated workers' party.

I know this is a naive question, but I don't know why it's so difficult to start a union in the age of online communities. For instance there are dedicated forums and subreddits for e.g. Uber eats and Amazon delivery and Walmart and all the grueling, exploitative jobs. They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as uni…

> They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as union employees?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_busting

If you were to organize a union, how would you increase membership while ensuring that management doesn't know that you're organizing a union? You mention online forums and similar but how do you let people know about the forum for the sake of organizing while keeping management out of the loop for the sake of secrecy?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#148

Post by oceanplexian »

websap wrote: post #47

We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle, multiple spots are now counter style ordering, you order, get a number and someone just comes from the kitchen to deliver the food. Some of them also have a QR code associated with your number which you can scan to order follow up items. Tipping more than 10% for counter style orde…

> We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle

Seattle isn’t the world, it’s not even representative of the USA. Like California they have enacted regulations and policy which resulted in widespread crime and homelessness, the shuttering of small business, and population decline.

The reason you have stuff like robots taking orders or kitchen staff waiting tables isn’t because the progressive utopia has been realized, it’s because there is no such thing as free lunch and those people got fired and kicked to the curb while the remaining employees were forced to do more work.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#149

Post by gibbitz »

dontlikeyoueith wrote: post #142
golergka wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a difference between a bribe and gratitude is pretty obvious. If the official had prior knowledge that he would receive an award, its a bribe. If he had no reason to expect it before making a decision, it's gratitude.

[flagged]

Naw it's fine... Just pay them $2/hr. They can make up the difference with tips. Also, they should have to share with the other congressmen/women evenly.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#150

Post by gosub100 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #147
gosub100 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is a naive question, but I don't know why it's so difficult to start a union in the age of online communities. For instance there are dedicated forums and subreddits for e.g. Uber eats and Amazon delivery and Walmart and all the grueling, exploitative jobs. They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as uni…

> They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as union employees? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_busting If you were to organize a union, how would you increase membership while ensuring that management doesn't know that you're organizing a union? You mention online forums and similar but how do you let people kno…

They can know about it, because posting online is effectively anonymous (for that purpose). That's what I meant about "coming out", they could organize anonymously and all agree "if you go, I'll go" and one day they shed the anonymity in unison.
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