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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#131

Post by jen20 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #118
silisili wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think (hope) the expectation is to eventually increase wages and prices and phase out tips altogether. Tip culture has gone insane...even my home inspector's last invoice has a tip line!

Minimum wage is already $20/hr where I live. Tips can approximately double that. There is no version of the world where employees will willing give up those tips and no restaurant can afford a $40/hr minimum wage. This is just a one-way ratchet on employment costs, not a plausible way to eliminate tipping.

> no restaurant can afford a $40/hr minimum wage.

Of course they can: increase prices accordingly (I'm not commenting on what a reasonable wage for serving is, just that tipping is a bad way to get to that wage).

It's not like customers don't have to consider the cost of the mandatory tipping bullshit when you consider where to eat and whether you can afford it in any case.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#132

Post by stonogo »

_yb2s wrote: post #115
giraffe_lady wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being serious no one eats well on $15k/year.

Nonsense.... I lived on under 10k/year for close to a decade in rural Oregon- a while enough ago that that would be about $14k/year now adjusted for inflation. I had a decent 2 bedroom apartment, two older but reliable cars I got for nearly free at auto auctions and a fast motorcycle, and cooked my own meals 3x/day from top quality local farmers market ingredients. I'm talking REALLY good food, the best quality fresh…

I think if you look you'll find that housing costs have rapidly outpaced inflation, even in rural Oregon. Studio flats in La Grande are approaching a thousand dollars a month. I believe what you're saying is true, but I don't think the experiment could be replicated today.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#133

Post by beaglesss »

unethical_ban wrote: post #90
rangerelf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe. Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep…

No. The definition of bribe applies to instances where law or merit are overridden by money or favors.

Many cases it's not to override law per se as it is to make someone care to follow the law and issue your paperwork.

US law actually carved out businesses can "bribe" foreign governments for access to services to entice foreign government worker execute their laws.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#135

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #112
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

why would you tip a barber? because they cut your hair good? what was the base payment for then?

I guess some of it is cultural rather than rational, but is tipping wait staff so much different? If you go to an expensive restaurant and pay double for the same food as in a cheaper one, then what exactly are you paying for, and in any case why is the tip a percentage (vs fixed amount, as is normal in the UK) such that the wait staff in the more expensive place get more?

Whether rational or not, I'm personally fine tipping where the worker is making a low wage, and have spent time personally attending to me. Part of it is thinking that they'll appreciate it more than I will miss it.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#136

Post by nerdjon »

alphabettsy wrote: post #75
djbusby wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tip at my local coffee (1-2/wk) because they are always nice, cool when I forget my wallet, get my "usual" w/o prompting, stickers for my kid, give me pro-tips on pastry baking, etc But if I went daily it'd be like $8/coffee. Espresso machine at home was the right answer. Pays for itself after only 200 coffees.

I tip at places like coffee shops and delis because the person taking my order is often also preparing it. If they’re just handing me a bag from the kitchen I don’t tip. Maybe this is silly.

I will be honest, this is where I have some conflicted opinions.

In many coffee shops they are different people. There is just the person at the register and then there is the person who made my coffee. Who did the tip go too? I would assume it's pooled, but I have no way to know that.

This isn't the case everywhere, there are for sure places that it is the same people (or one place I go to it is a joint effort, it is a super small place with them regularly both shuffling work like one pouring milk while one brew the espresso).

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#138

Post by jameshart »

andsoitis wrote: post #87
afavour wrote: post #17

IMO it's just bad policy all round without a significantly higher level of detail. For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? If we're not very, very specific about it's going to be yet another tax loophole exploited by the rich who will pay each other $1 for work and then 'tip' thousands more. Sure you’re an engineer on staff now but wouldn’t you want to be a freelancer, paid minimum wage and then a healthy “t…

> For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? Tips are well defined by the IRS, including reporting requirements: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

Supreme Court has decided that the final arbiter on rule making between statutory lines is on the courts now though. IRS can promulgate a regulation like that but anyone can take it to court and get their case ruled on separately.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#139

Post by adrianmonk »

beaglesss wrote: post #5

What's more likely is some bean counter at the IRS realized enforcing taxes on tips cost more money to enforce than they gained, or was barely break even. It's an easy political win at no risk.

Not exactly. But you're partially right because there is an IRS connection, indirectly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/08/26/trump-tip...

TLDR: Tax on tips is hard to enforce. A lot of it goes unreported. In 2023, the IRS wanted to revamp voluntary enforcement programs, consolidating three voluntary programs into one voluntary program. But they don't plan to move forward with that.

Trump ran an ad saying Kamala wants to "harass" tipped workers and has "weaponized the IRS", and making himself look like the good guy by promising to simply eliminate the tax. Kamala responded with a competing plan but with some modifications. One modification is to make tips exempt from income tax but still subject to payroll tax, allowing workers to get social security benefits when they retire.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#140

Post by manuelmoreale »

next_xibalba wrote: post #78
kitkat_new wrote: post #27

tips should be banned not only is it a shitty source of income, it also exposes you to sexism, racism and makes you tolerate shit things, because your income could be at risk standing up for yourself.

Have you ever worked a job where you get tipped? I have. I was both a bartender and a server and my income was far better than both 1) the alternatives for which I was qualified, and 2) what my income would have been on flat, higher wage. If you haven't worked a job like that, it might be worth talking to people who do or have.

Potentially very stupid question: should I add a tip % on my invoices as a freelance developer?
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