Topics like these are a footnote in the fight against wealth inequality, a fight we’re losing to the rich.
Gary Stevenson is doing hero’s work on this subject and it is the whale in the room for everyone’s financial well-being.
Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#62The US is in desperate need of a labor movement. The Democrats dance with the UAW and are deeply tied to the AFT/NEA, but most labor unions in the US are getting the crap beat out of them and both parties turn a blind eye.
It's good that more unions are speaking with/to Republicans, but what is really needed is a dedicated workers' party.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#63What's more likely is some bean counter at the IRS realized enforcing taxes on tips cost more money to enforce than they gained, or was barely break even. It's an easy political win at no risk.
What's to prevent corporations and the rich from taking advantage of this? ie, my job is $10k + rest in "tips"?
Can you deduct tips paid as a business expense?
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...
No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.
"Tipping" absolutely is a kind of bribe.
Let's take police officers in México, for México, for example. One needs to pay bribes to get anything done. On the other hand, they have almost zero job protection, have absolutely crappy salaries, most of the time have to buy their own uniforms, their own gas for the police cars, and so forth. And on top of that, they have to contribute to "upwards bribes", so they can keep their jobs.
It might not be identical to the situation of a water at a café, but jeez, does it rhyme with it.
Tipping should be banned. Waitstaff at a restaurant should be considered like any other employee. Tipping someone because they went "above and beyond" should be considered as an insult, because it's literally a bribe, "I'll give you something extra for your trouble".
Alas, it's a bit too idealistic of me to expect that to happen.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#65We're moving to a world that most restaurants won't have servers taking your food and drinks order. This is already happening in Seattle, multiple spots are now counter style ordering, you order, get a number and someone just comes from the kitchen to deliver the food. Some of them also have a QR code associated with your number which you can scan to order follow up items. Tipping more than 10% for counter style orde…
If you ask me, tipping more than 0% for counter style ordering where there is no dedicated waiter involved makes no sense. Even worse are the coffee shops - if you think getting a coffee is just a few bucks and is relatively cheap, note that you get robbed when you end up tipping. $1 or more tip on a $5 coffee. And there is nothing special you get, the baristas are just doing their basic job. Also the looks you get w…
I tip at my local coffee (1-2/wk) because they are always nice, cool when I forget my wallet, get my "usual" w/o prompting, stickers for my kid, give me pro-tips on pastry baking, etc
But if I went daily it'd be like $8/coffee.
Espresso machine at home was the right answer. Pays for itself after only 200 coffees.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#66It needs to be clear if I'm shafting a sub-minimum wage worker, or declining an egregious tip-ask at the self-check counter.
If you must tip, only ever use cash. Otherwise you're also subsidizing Square, Toast, Visa, Stripe, etc. Did they give you exceptional service today? Use cash.
If it means I don’t have to carry around a wad of bills in a gold money clip and hand them out like I’m John Gotti, then yes, Visa did give me exceptional service.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#67It needs to be clear if I'm shafting a sub-minimum wage worker, or declining an egregious tip-ask at the self-check counter.
Don't tip standing up. If you're ordering at a counter, that's not a tipped job. What are you even tipping for anyway? You haven't gotten your food yet, they're not bringing anything to you, it makes no sense. If the conceit of tips is that they incentivize good service, then tipping before you receive the service is nonsensical.
> "Don't tip standing up. If you're ordering at a counter, that's not a tipped job. What are you even tipping for anyway?"
And what am I getting when I'm sitting down? The restaurant should be paying this person to bring me my order just as much as they pay the cashier that rings up the order "standing up".
The whole thing is ridiculous and we're just pandering to a very vocal and particularly nasty minority's opinion (just look at "tipping" subreddits and Facebook pages to see the toxicity, entitled-ness and hostility towards customers).
And because it's unpalatable to say these things, we've all collectively come up with post-rationalizations as to why we should tip and how it'll go horribly if we try address it. "Oh but if you don't tip the employer won't pay them" and endless variations of that and "a ha, but you didn't consider this" gotchas that effectively make this an un-discussible topic.
People worked hard to get some sort of "minimum wage" and then we all collectively allowed tipping (Edit: service worker's that get tips) to be exempt with some sort of "make up for low tips so they get minimum wage anyways" complicated setup that added yet more ways for employers to shaft these "suffering" workers.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#68IMO it's just bad policy all round without a significantly higher level of detail. For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? If we're not very, very specific about it's going to be yet another tax loophole exploited by the rich who will pay each other $1 for work and then 'tip' thousands more. Sure you’re an engineer on staff now but wouldn’t you want to be a freelancer, paid minimum wage and then a healthy “t…
I would say this is ridiculous, until I read Snyder v. United States[1,2]. > Held: Section 666 proscribes bribes to state and local officials but does not make it a crime for those officials to accept gratuities for their past acts. Pp. 7–16. 1. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-108_8n5a.pdf . 2. https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/snyder-v-united-...
The real kicker in that case is that Snyder claimed the money was payment for services as a consultant to Peterbilt--which would be an obvious and glaring conflict of interest with his duties as mayor. But as far as I can tell this wasn't even considered anywhere--not the Federal prosecutors and not the judges at any level.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#69Increasing the tipped minimum wage means that restaurants will add that cost to the menu. Because tips are based a percentage of your order, this means that customers actually pay more money in tips, even though these laws are marketed as reducing the need for tips.
There are several states that already don't have a separate tipped minimum wage, including California, and they all have restaurants that operate just fine. The rest of the world does not have tipped minimum wages, and very little tipping culture compared to the US and they also manage to have restaurants that people can afford.
Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?
#70It seems like a distraction.
I had a uncle that would tell the wait staff that the cash he handed them was a gift and not a tip (with a wink and a nod).