Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 228 posts

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#111

Post by jerlam »

unethical_ban wrote: post #85
whartung wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local McDonalds, when you walk in, you see 3 large screen order kiosks, and 2, essentially, empty counters. One with a register. And that's it. There's no beverage bar, no condiment bar, there MIGHT be napkins, but I can't recall. You order from the kiosk, which has a cash machine to accept cash, and if its to eat in, grab a table tent and type in the number. Otherwise, you just take the number on the receipt. Ev…

McDonalds kiosks, besides being a harbinger of a future devoid of contact with service workers, is an objectively awful experience. The menu is gigantic, it upsells constantly, the screen is buggy, and the food delivery folks don't use the numbers half the time.

They were not always so bad. I tried one out when they were just installed (and everyone avoided them); they ran a lot faster, with no upselling or ads. The adware garbage that has long infected the internet has gone right into their kiosks.

Just like how McDs just raised prices endlessly for the past few years, they've also intentionally turned ordering into an adversarial experience.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#112

Post by laweijfmvo »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

why would you tip a barber? because they cut your hair good? what was the base payment for then?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#113

Post by kcb »

unethical_ban wrote: post #85
whartung wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local McDonalds, when you walk in, you see 3 large screen order kiosks, and 2, essentially, empty counters. One with a register. And that's it. There's no beverage bar, no condiment bar, there MIGHT be napkins, but I can't recall. You order from the kiosk, which has a cash machine to accept cash, and if its to eat in, grab a table tent and type in the number. Otherwise, you just take the number on the receipt. Ev…

McDonalds kiosks, besides being a harbinger of a future devoid of contact with service workers, is an objectively awful experience. The menu is gigantic, it upsells constantly, the screen is buggy, and the food delivery folks don't use the numbers half the time.

Wild to me given the processing power cheaply available that those touchscreens also feel unresponsive and laggy.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#114

Post by amflare »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #54

IMO there should be a CoL adjusted minimum livable wage across the country, and it should be illegal to pay a >18 year old less than what it takes to live on. And that should be calculated from the barest minimum living standards[1]. At a certain point it becomes unconscionable for a wealthy society not to provide pure commodities at their lowest cost of delivery to it's poorest. As we do that, tips should be elimina…

Absolutely not. Compensation should reflect value received. This idea effectively forces a business to subsidize their employees, because you damn sure can't pass all that to the customer (because then we are just back where we started, just with an extra 0 on every transaction). Small businesses and business with low profit margins will be forced out of business. And this would consolidate capital into the hands of the big businesses and billionaires who can afford to pay everyone tens of thousands of dollars more than they can bring into the company.

A McDonald's cashier is not worth $55,000 just because they are >18 years old. That position is not supposed to be a career. That position is supposed to be a first job for a dumb 16 year old who needs gas money and $500 for a PS5. When their needs outgrow their paycheck, they are supposed to move to a job that pays more. Can McDonalds afford to pay the extra? Sure. But Jimmy's Hotdog Stand down the street can't, so he goes out of business and the money he would have made goes to McDonald's instead and the rich get richer.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#115

Post by _yb2s »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #88
_yb2s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that essentially already the case in the USA? The standard deduction for a single person is $14,600/year and the federal property level is very close to that at $15,060/year. It's kind-of weird how these levels are set equal nationwide... as there are regions where this is a decent living and one could own a small single family home or condo, an older but reliable car, and eat well on that salary... and places…

Are you being serious no one eats well on $15k/year.

Nonsense.... I lived on under 10k/year for close to a decade in rural Oregon- a while enough ago that that would be about $14k/year now adjusted for inflation.

I had a decent 2 bedroom apartment, two older but reliable cars I got for nearly free at auto auctions and a fast motorcycle, and cooked my own meals 3x/day from top quality local farmers market ingredients. I'm talking REALLY good food, the best quality fresh local meat and vegetables money can buy, that was the one thing I would not compromise on.

I traveled a lot for fun also, but it was in my own (very fuel efficient) vehicles, cooking for myself on a camp stove while traveling and I could only afford restaurants a few times a year.

Almost all of my possessions like furniture, etc. were high quality things I had slowly sourced for free over craigslist, with some dumpster diving and word of mouth. Mostly high end vintage hardwood stuff that looked expensive- Rich people don't sell that stuff, they give or throw it away.

Personally, I felt like I was living very comfortably, and I quite enjoyed the challenge of living frugally. I felt a bit smug about how I creatively found ways to have pretty nice things, and a nice lifestyle without much cost.

I'll add that nowadays I'm into 'sea foraging' and can jump in the ocean with a mask and a pole spear and eat like a king for free in a few minutes.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#116

Post by mlyle »

brodouevencode wrote: post #70

It seems like a distraction. I had a uncle that would tell the wait staff that the cash he handed them was a gift and not a tip (with a wink and a nod).

Haha. Your uncle probably had waitstaff that did not understand that he was talking about a tax distinction and thought he was creepy. :P

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#117

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

maximinus_thrax wrote: post #49
throw_m239339 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, people "tip" teachers, police officers, doctors, politicians, judges... you know where I'm going with that... I'm not saying tips should be banned but there certainly is a "cultural aspect" to tipping...

No, they don't. You're trying a false equivalency between a bribe and gratuity. A bribe happens before the service is provided and the service is contingent upon the bribe. Gratuity is post factum, technically based on the quality of the service provided.

> based on the quality of the service provide

It should be based on quality of service, or at least on some service being provided, but what has now become the norm is the expectation that you pay a tip (and a hefty percentage one, not just a dollar in the tip jar) just for buying a food item at the counter, with zero service provided.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#118

Post by jandrewrogers »

silisili wrote: post #19
Aunche wrote: post #10

Increasing the tipped minimum wage means that restaurants will add that cost to the menu. Because tips are based a percentage of your order, this means that customers actually pay more money in tips, even though these laws are marketed as reducing the need for tips.

I think (hope) the expectation is to eventually increase wages and prices and phase out tips altogether. Tip culture has gone insane...even my home inspector's last invoice has a tip line!

Minimum wage is already $20/hr where I live. Tips can approximately double that. There is no version of the world where employees will willing give up those tips and no restaurant can afford a $40/hr minimum wage.

This is just a one-way ratchet on employment costs, not a plausible way to eliminate tipping.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#119

Post by stainablesteel »

minimum wage is not a problem

the value backing the currency is the problem, government is spending too much and your cash is not worth anything

the artificial minimum or maximum you're owed is a hoax and only hurts the economy by preventing people from working if they can't achieve that amount, and by hurting the economy makes you poorer by devaluing your currency, meaning what you're paid will be worth less due to the value of the currency, not its amount

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#120

Post by jen20 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #85
whartung wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local McDonalds, when you walk in, you see 3 large screen order kiosks, and 2, essentially, empty counters. One with a register. And that's it. There's no beverage bar, no condiment bar, there MIGHT be napkins, but I can't recall. You order from the kiosk, which has a cash machine to accept cash, and if its to eat in, grab a table tent and type in the number. Otherwise, you just take the number on the receipt. Ev…

McDonalds kiosks, besides being a harbinger of a future devoid of contact with service workers, is an objectively awful experience. The menu is gigantic, it upsells constantly, the screen is buggy, and the food delivery folks don't use the numbers half the time.

The biggest issue I have with it is that the touch screen is unresponsive. You press something, and it responds a second later. Completely unforgivable.
Post reply on HN