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Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

theguardian.com

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Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#101

Post by mlyle »

afavour wrote: post #17

IMO it's just bad policy all round without a significantly higher level of detail. For example, how do we classify a tip vs a wage? If we're not very, very specific about it's going to be yet another tax loophole exploited by the rich who will pay each other $1 for work and then 'tip' thousands more. Sure you’re an engineer on staff now but wouldn’t you want to be a freelancer, paid minimum wage and then a healthy “t…

On the other hand, requiring taxes to be paid on something that is really hard to enforce for some segments of the workforce is also bad policy.

IMO there's a need for some nuance here.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#102

Post by akavi »

IgorPartola wrote: post #22
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #8

I assume business would just lower the amount they pay, since tips would be worth more.

Businesses already pay the exact minimum wage of $2.13/hour. The employees either make an additional $5.12/hour in tips or the employer must make up the difference at every pay period. Employees routinely underreport their tip earnings beyond the $5.12/hour to not pay taxes and fly under the DoL radar. Edit: I should add that lots of states and some cities have their own minimum wage laws but they are all structured…

> I should add that lots of states and some cities have their own minimum wage laws but they are all structured the same.

Rule of thumb, there's _nothing_ in US law where you can say "things vary by state, but they're all the same in way X".

In this case, California has no concept of tip credits. All employees, regardless of whether they receive tips, must be paid at least minimum wage (Currently 16 $/hr)

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#103

Post by gosub100 »

debacle wrote: post #62

The US is in desperate need of a labor movement. The Democrats dance with the UAW and are deeply tied to the AFT/NEA, but most labor unions in the US are getting the crap beat out of them and both parties turn a blind eye. It's good that more unions are speaking with/to Republicans, but what is really needed is a dedicated workers' party.

I know this is a naive question, but I don't know why it's so difficult to start a union in the age of online communities. For instance there are dedicated forums and subreddits for e.g. Uber eats and Amazon delivery and Walmart and all the grueling, exploitative jobs. They all have a common thread and viewpoint, why isn't it trivial for them to organize online, pick a date, and one day all "come out" formally as union employees?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#104

Post by phainopepla2 »

diob wrote: post #39
bko wrote: post #12

I don't like tipping culture, but it does allow for wealthy people to subsidize service and incentivizes good service. People that are more price sensitive tip lower and every once in a while a waiter will experience an extremely generous tip. I'm not convinced that forbidding tips would increase net wages paid to servers. In terms of who is paying, restaurants will simply raise prices to account for higher wages. Th…

I've actually gotten much better service in places like Australia / Japan where tips aren't a thing. From my understanding, poor people are often the best tippers in the USA, and rich folks tend to not tip.

Having worked as a server for years I can say your second paragraph is definitely not true, or at least it wasn't for me.

Rich people had a higher than expected number of cheapskates, but on net definitely tipped more.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#105

Post by Matticus_Rex »

joseda-hg wrote: post #44
bko wrote: post #12

I don't like tipping culture, but it does allow for wealthy people to subsidize service and incentivizes good service. People that are more price sensitive tip lower and every once in a while a waiter will experience an extremely generous tip. I'm not convinced that forbidding tips would increase net wages paid to servers. In terms of who is paying, restaurants will simply raise prices to account for higher wages. Th…

I think it should be less about forbidding tips, and more about disincentivizing them, currently, if you make less than tips, some people feel like they personally have to tip because otherwise they're taking away (expected) wages Give waiters minimum wage, split the cost among all sales, and if a server actually goes above and beyond, then I don't think anyone would complain about tipping them extra

Last time I was a waiter (more than a decade ago now) at a mid-range restaurant, on dinner shifts we were all making $15/hr on a slow night and sometimes over $50/hr. There's no world in which we'd have been making more without tips, and we wouldn't welcome it.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#106

Post by akavi »

websap wrote: post #50
Aunche wrote: post #10

Increasing the tipped minimum wage means that restaurants will add that cost to the menu. Because tips are based a percentage of your order, this means that customers actually pay more money in tips, even though these laws are marketed as reducing the need for tips.

There should be some sort of cap on tips. My friends and I went our for dinner last weekend and we ended up spending around $600 for dinner, there were 5 of us. They automatically added 20% , $120 as a tip. We spent about 2 hours at that restaurant. I wouldn't say service was spectacular. The server infact made us over order, everyone had to take boxes back, they messed up 2 of our courses, but we had no recourse. De…

> Definitely not visiting that spot ever again.

Sounds like there's already a cap on it.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#107

Post by carlosjobim »

more_corn wrote: post #2

How about no tax on people below the poverty line? When I was young it always killed me to make so little and still pay taxes.

I always found it strange that modern socialists and leftists are very supportive of income taxes, even though it is a dreadful burden on those people who have to work for their survival. Why wouldn't leftists instead be more for taxes and tariffs on land, on commerce, on natural resources or on luxuries?

The funny thing is that one of the goals of the communist party in the Soviet Union was to abolish all income taxes! Khrushchev even lamented later that they couldn't reach that goal. I suspect many hackers would have loved to be members of the Supreme Soviet, but how would they have reacted when Khrushchev suggested to abolish all income taxes?

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#108

Post by the_snooze »

alphabettsy wrote: post #75
djbusby wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tip at my local coffee (1-2/wk) because they are always nice, cool when I forget my wallet, get my "usual" w/o prompting, stickers for my kid, give me pro-tips on pastry baking, etc But if I went daily it'd be like $8/coffee. Espresso machine at home was the right answer. Pays for itself after only 200 coffees.

I tip at places like coffee shops and delis because the person taking my order is often also preparing it. If they’re just handing me a bag from the kitchen I don’t tip. Maybe this is silly.

It's exactly the same service at the deli counter at my grocery store. They make sandwiches to order. Yet there's no tipping at all there. No jar, no tip line on the receipt.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#109

Post by nemo44x »

beaglesss wrote: post #80
imgabe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tip standing up. If you're ordering at a counter, that's not a tipped job. What are you even tipping for anyway? You haven't gotten your food yet, they're not bringing anything to you, it makes no sense. If the conceit of tips is that they incentivize good service, then tipping before you receive the service is nonsensical.

I will tip counter if they have a jar or the terminal asks, but if I do I treat them as tipped workers -- i.e. I will leave all my trash sitting at the table and wave them over when my food is ready. Generally my rule is 10% tip for bussing and 10% for taking and bringing my order.

It’s hilarious when they ask for tips but yet I’m expected to get my order when they call out my name as well as expected to clean/bus my own table and serve myself water from a communal water vessel.

Re: Is 'No tax on tips' a distraction from the fight to end sub-minimum wages?

#110

Post by jjice »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #94

The tipping culture in the US has got totally out of control over last 3-4 years. I'm more than fine tipping low waged people who provide an actual service like wait staff and barbers, but the ubiquitous payment terminals taking over for credit card payment, where the cashier/counter staff expect a 10/15/20% or more tip (some now have 20% as the minimum, unless you go "custom") for doing nothing, piss me off! What ne…

I was at a small train station in New England heading to Boston with a friend a few weeks ago. We each got a bottle of water. $5 each (should have seen that coming), but the real shocker was that the convenience store inside the train station asked for a tip on the terminal. On the $5 bottles of water we picked up and brought to the counter. The absurdity there makes me feel like I'm in Waiting for Godot.
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