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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#701

Post by burnte »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Because some things like terrorism and child sex abuse are harms to society as a whole, and even private individuals have an obligation to help combat them. Durov has a service where by design it's hard to filter out that kind of activity, and he's effectively (if not explicitly) helping protect that activity.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#702

Post by Blot2882 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #252
laurent_du wrote: post #156

If people were using my backyard to sell drugs or CSAM, I knew it, and did nothing about it, I would absolutely be guilty of facilitating these crimes. I fail to see how the situation is different for Pasha.

if i put up a random E2E encrypted messaging side project i made on github and then people started using it for CSAM? People use government built sidewalks to sell drugs, does that mean I can sue the govt for the drug trade?

If you were the one hosting it on your own server and storing CSAM that people were sending, yeah, you should be arrested. Nobody cares if you upload a messenger to github, there's scores of them.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#703

Post by AnthonyMouse »

matwood wrote: post #547
ipaddr wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There purpose is to hide charges as longas possible to deceive or trick which is against a fully transparent process

There are valid reasons, like stopping people from destroying evidence or fleeing.

There are also valid reasons the other way, like consulting an attorney to challenge the warrant or prepare a defense before it gets executed, disrupts your life and prevents you from clearing your name because you're being incarcerated without bail. It's hard to investigate the charges against you from a cell.

Or the ability of journalists to inform the public of what the government is getting on with in their name. If the government is investigating their critics they have no right to keep it a secret.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#704

Post by d0mine »

vik0 wrote: post #636
d0mine wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unrelated to technological innovation (in the short run). I expect the same result in US. Europe is not united enough to have a separate from US opinion.

I really hope the US doesn't become like Europe (Europe in general, as I know it's not an actual untied enough polity at the moment) when it comes to free speech, and, come to think of it, in many, many other aspects as well. It may sound funny to read, especially if you're an American, but I do still see America as the city upon the hill. I've lived in America, and I'm currently in ( sigh ) Europe, but I wish to ret…

I envy your blind optimism.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#705

Post by sterlind »

wildzzz wrote: post #671
walterbell wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal's early funding source is public record, https://www.opentech.fund/projects-we-support/supported-proj... Double Ratchet [1] is also used by WhatsApp (2B+ users) and IETF MLS [2] standard for E2EE group messaging. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm [2] https://www.ietf.org/blog/mls-secure-and-usable-end-to-end-e...

The US government likes funding encrypted communication channels because it helps destabilize the kinds of dictators that eavesdrop on dissidents.

and it's useful for tradecraft. I think NSA uses Tor to some degree, for example.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#706

Post by tuatoru »

burnte wrote: post #701
mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Because some things like terrorism and child sex abuse are harms to society as a whole, and even private individuals have an obligation to help combat them. Durov has a service where by design it's hard to filter out that kind of activity, and he's effectively (if not explicitly) helping protect that activity.

So is France going to arrest the owners of HP, because their printers can't filter out CSAM?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#707

Post by AnthonyMouse »

threeseed wrote: post #630
celdon25 wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has already been a form of one for at least 10 years, just happening too gradually for the average person to realize it.

That's the beauty of comments like yours. Because in your eyes it is so gradual the difference between it's happening slowly and not happening at all is imperceptible and impossible to prove.

> Because in your eyes it is so gradual the difference between it's happening slowly and not happening at all is imperceptible and impossible to prove.

It's extremely straightforward to prove. You look at the laws that have been passed and the court opinions issued in the last 30-60 years.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#709

Post by AnthonyMouse »

oytis wrote: post #625
dawnerd wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even then you don’t have to tell them it’s illegal. Just what you earned. Frankly they don’t care where it came from as long as you report and pay.

TIL. How do they check that the sum you specified is correct though?

Suppose you knit mittens and sell them for cash out of your garage. The IRS expects you to report and pay taxes on the income. How do they check that the sum you specified is correct?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#710

Post by [deleted] »

lttlrck wrote: post #694
walterbell wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal's early funding source is public record, https://www.opentech.fund/projects-we-support/supported-proj... Double Ratchet [1] is also used by WhatsApp (2B+ users) and IETF MLS [2] standard for E2EE group messaging. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm [2] https://www.ietf.org/blog/mls-secure-and-usable-end-to-end-e...

funded != built ?

[deleted]
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