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China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

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Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#61

Post by leot »

maratd wrote: post #29
joshuahedlund wrote: post #16

My bias wants to make some remark about unions and/or regulations inhibiting construction innovation in the US, but I have no idea if that's actually true... is there progress being made in the US (faster construction? more prefab? etc) or does China's progress simply come with quality sacrifices that are pretty unacceptable in the US?

While I too would like to make derogatory remarks about unions, regulations, hippies, and the rest of our society that seem to make a living off of inhibiting progress ... The truth of the matter is that this is bullshit. The "hotel in 2 weeks" story already appeared on HN and was thoroughly discredited. This doesn't seem much more plausible. In the end, if you want the building to stand for more than a year or two,…

It matters when you start the clock.

At the beginning of the design stage? When the first prefab wall panel starts being built at their factory? When you break ground?

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#63

Post by cjensen »

abalashov wrote: post #25

As if Chinese building practices (and QC generally) weren't bad enough, I am definitely never going inside

Yep. Reminds me of how they proudly built a much faster bullet train. Did they really think the Japanese and French were holding back on speed because they were bad engineers?

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#64

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

brudgers wrote: post #39
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the benefit of the rest of the developed world's experience of how to plan cities. Do they really only plan to use these large buildings for only 10 years and then rebuild? Is this normal for the rest of the world?

It's not particularly abnormal during rapid real-estate development cycles. The scale is unusual, but then again, China is the first country with more than a billion people.

I'd understand if they were demolishing decrepit buildings and building new and better buildings. That doesn't seem the case.

It's plausible that none of what we have learnt so far applies very well to extremely large populations. I still find it strange and super inefficient.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#65

Post by est »

nirvana wrote: post #26
joshuahedlund wrote: post #16

My bias wants to make some remark about unions and/or regulations inhibiting construction innovation in the US, but I have no idea if that's actually true... is there progress being made in the US (faster construction? more prefab? etc) or does China's progress simply come with quality sacrifices that are pretty unacceptable in the US?

Certainly there was a time when the USA seemed to be the the leaders of this kind of innovation. We're leaders of a different kind now. The video for the 15 story hotel they built super quickly seems to show an innovative design that is also very high quality-- probably higher quality than alternatives. The construction is impressively earth quake resistant. The air purification system, if I understood what was happe…

> the 15 story hotel

It's not as pretty as you think.

http://zjj.house.sina.com.cn/zhuanti/yuandajiemi/index.html

scroll down to the bottom.

http://zjj.house.sina.com.cn/images/U4528P915T3D125F161DT201...

This is the 15 story hotel entrance. Can you imagine?

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#67

Post by damian2000 »

twelvechairs wrote: post #58
ecaron wrote: post #28

It is hard to read this story without thinking about the massive scale of "we just built this building, but we're going to tear it down because it is a deathtrap" demolitions that are happening in Beijing and the other populous cities in China that are still growing at obscene rates: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-proudly-demolishing-b...

Of course the classic example of 'build a big building to look good, but so poorly that it will never really be usable' is the North Korean Ryugong Hotel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel We are in another age now though. I'm not sure anyone will quite reach the same levels of stupidity.

That building is totally bizarre.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#68

Post by rprasad »

_delirium wrote: post #37
joshuahedlund wrote: post #16

My bias wants to make some remark about unions and/or regulations inhibiting construction innovation in the US, but I have no idea if that's actually true... is there progress being made in the US (faster construction? more prefab? etc) or does China's progress simply come with quality sacrifices that are pretty unacceptable in the US?

I think some credit has to be given to the Chinese for innovating in this area as well; it's not just safety/quality corner-cutting, though there might be some of that. The article notes the much longer time it took Dubai to build its similarly sized building, and Dubai is not exactly known for worker-friendly labor laws or European/American levels of workplace-safety regulations.

The difference in the quality of the Chinese quick-buildings (i.e., "quildings") and the Dubai buildings is the difference between a Ford Pinto and a Lamborghini.

The Chinese quildings are cheap because they lack any sort of extravagance. In contrast, the Chinese structures which do feature prominant decorative features (i.e., the Bird's Nest or CSTV HQ), took almost as long to build as they would have anywhere else.

The Dubai buildings take a long time because they are built to exacting standards using the most opulent, expensive materials the Royal Family can buy. Everything is done to spec, and it shows.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#69

Post by rprasad »

brudgers wrote: post #44
kylec wrote: post #20

I wonder how much of this will go unused. The "largest mall in the world" was build in China in 2005 and has remained 99% vacant. Having the "tallest building in the world" is an even bigger feather in their cap, but it won't be very impressive if no one actually uses it.

The Empire State Building didn't reach profitability until about two decades after its completion. Nevertheless, it has remained impressive from the time of its completion through today.

The Empire State Building completed construction right before the Great Depression. The Great Depression was followed by WWII. The ESB became profitable as soon as the US economy picked up.

In contrast, the Chinese Great Mall has been essentially vacant despite China's decade-long boom cycle. If they can't fill up the mall during a period of double-digit economic expansion, they never will.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#70

Post by gbog »

Danieru wrote: post #60
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the benefit of the rest of the developed world's experience of how to plan cities. Do they really only plan to use these large buildings for only 10 years and then rebuild? Is this normal for the rest of the world?

China has many large buildings. Of this very large set a few turned out to need demolition. The article accuses China of paying the morning crew to dig a ditch and the evening crew to fill it up. I dislike communist in-efficiencies just as much as any other capitalist, but I do not think the situation is occurring quite to the severity implied in the parent's article.

Meetoo. Moreover, it is deep in Asian culture to have to rebuild frequently their architecture. I have lived beside the Forbidden City and it is in continuous reworking. I bet not one part of it is older than a couple of decades. But its plan odds very old, predates the foundation of Beijing itself. So having to destroy and rebuild every now and then is quite normal here.

Interested readers might want to check what Simon Leys said on the matter.

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