China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days • Hacker News Board

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#31

Post by nemo1618 » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:28 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #9

Looking at the profile, it is much more stout than Burj Khalifa which should make the engineering significantly less complex due to the inherent stiffness. On the other hand, much of the building's interior spaces will have little access to daylight due to the large size of the floor plates - at 1,000,000 m^2 it is has more than three times the area of Burj Khalifa.

That's a good point. You have to wonder if they considered innovating in that area as well. Perhaps a system that diffuses light through the ceiling of each floor? That would be quite impressive.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#32

Post by Fizzadar » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:32 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #29

joshuahedlund wrote: post #16

My bias wants to make some remark about unions and/or regulations inhibiting construction innovation in the US, but I have no idea if that's actually true... is there progress being made in the US (faster construction? more prefab? etc) or does China's progress simply come with quality sacrifices that are pretty unacceptable in the US?

While I too would like to make derogatory remarks about unions, regulations, hippies, and the rest of our society that seem to make a living off of inhibiting progress ... The truth of the matter is that this is bullshit. The "hotel in 2 weeks" story already appeared on HN and was thoroughly discredited. This doesn't seem much more plausible. In the end, if you want the building to stand for more than a year or two,…

I don't remember a huge amount of discredit on the hotel in two weeks?

I would expect that hotel is still standing strong for years to come; I think China really are the world leaders when it comes to construction these days (I heard somewhere that they're putting up some insane number of coal power-plants every month?!). What I'd really like to see is an entire prefab, skyscraper filled city built in a year.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#33

Post by Danieru » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:47 PM UTC

ecaron wrote: post #28

It is hard to read this story without thinking about the massive scale of "we just built this building, but we're going to tear it down because it is a deathtrap" demolitions that are happening in Beijing and the other populous cities in China that are still growing at obscene rates: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-proudly-demolishing-b...

There is a lot of sensationalism in that article. Half the pictured buildings are over ten years old. Only one is less than three years old.

That is not to deny that china has an over investment issue with their state financed industries. But still, in a country of over a billion I do not think it is out of the ordinary to have some development.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#34

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

Danieru wrote: post #33

ecaron wrote: post #28

It is hard to read this story without thinking about the massive scale of "we just built this building, but we're going to tear it down because it is a deathtrap" demolitions that are happening in Beijing and the other populous cities in China that are still growing at obscene rates: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-proudly-demolishing-b...

There is a lot of sensationalism in that article. Half the pictured buildings are over ten years old. Only one is less than three years old. That is not to deny that china has an over investment issue with their state financed industries. But still, in a country of over a billion I do not think it is out of the ordinary to have some development.

They also have the benefit of the rest of the developed world's experience of how to plan cities.

Do they really only plan to use these large buildings for only 10 years and then rebuild? Is this normal for the rest of the world?

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#35

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

Danieru wrote: post #33

ecaron wrote: post #28

It is hard to read this story without thinking about the massive scale of "we just built this building, but we're going to tear it down because it is a deathtrap" demolitions that are happening in Beijing and the other populous cities in China that are still growing at obscene rates: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-proudly-demolishing-b...

There is a lot of sensationalism in that article. Half the pictured buildings are over ten years old. Only one is less than three years old. That is not to deny that china has an over investment issue with their state financed industries. But still, in a country of over a billion I do not think it is out of the ordinary to have some development.

[deleted]

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#36

Post by brudgers » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

ippisl wrote: post #15

brudgers wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always a lead time. But the pace at which prefabricated items can be built in a factory is significantly greater than that at which items can be site built. The constraints on an urban site are a significant logistical problem - site fabrication requires lots of different trades arriving through city traffic at the same time because there isn't much space in which materials may be staged. Every trade adds to…

Do you think it's practical to ship the pieces from china to the u.s. or europe ?

I worked on a Low Income Housing Tax Credit project where the developer had granite countertops and solid wood cabinets shipped from China for roughly the same cost as standard economy cabinets and commodity laminate countertops.

What made it practical was the specifics of LIHTC funding. A significant amount of the funds had to be spent upfront on materials and/or labor or it would have been lost. This made the long lead time beneficial because early stages of construction such as clearing and grubbing are relatively inexpensive whereas finishes are relatively expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-Income_Housing_Tax_Credit

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#37

Post by _delirium » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:02 PM UTC

joshuahedlund wrote: post #16

My bias wants to make some remark about unions and/or regulations inhibiting construction innovation in the US, but I have no idea if that's actually true... is there progress being made in the US (faster construction? more prefab? etc) or does China's progress simply come with quality sacrifices that are pretty unacceptable in the US?

I think some credit has to be given to the Chinese for innovating in this area as well; it's not just safety/quality corner-cutting, though there might be some of that. The article notes the much longer time it took Dubai to build its similarly sized building, and Dubai is not exactly known for worker-friendly labor laws or European/American levels of workplace-safety regulations.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#38

Post by brudgers » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:02 PM UTC

nemo1618 wrote: post #31

brudgers wrote: post #9

Looking at the profile, it is much more stout than Burj Khalifa which should make the engineering significantly less complex due to the inherent stiffness. On the other hand, much of the building's interior spaces will have little access to daylight due to the large size of the floor plates - at 1,000,000 m^2 it is has more than three times the area of Burj Khalifa.

That's a good point. You have to wonder if they considered innovating in that area as well. Perhaps a system that diffuses light through the ceiling of each floor? That would be quite impressive.

The innovations are primarily logistical not technological and in the end, lights in the ceiling are lights in the ceiling, not windows with a view of the weather or the city lights.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#39

Post by brudgers » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:04 PM UTC

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #34

Danieru wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of sensationalism in that article. Half the pictured buildings are over ten years old. Only one is less than three years old. That is not to deny that china has an over investment issue with their state financed industries. But still, in a country of over a billion I do not think it is out of the ordinary to have some development.

They also have the benefit of the rest of the developed world's experience of how to plan cities. Do they really only plan to use these large buildings for only 10 years and then rebuild? Is this normal for the rest of the world?

It's not particularly abnormal during rapid real-estate development cycles. The scale is unusual, but then again, China is the first country with more than a billion people.

Re: China Plans To Build The World’s Tallest Building In 90 Days

#40

Post by sophacles » Tue, Jun 19, 2012, 10:08 PM UTC

mayneack wrote: post #11

jameskilton wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the Burj is itself mind bogglingly tall, this new one is only 10m taller. I'm wondering when we're gonna see the first true Mile High tower? We're 1/3 the way there!

If it's only 10 cm taller, that sounds like within the margin of error of where you measure. Not that I have any idea what the standard "building height" measurement entails.

We can measure the distance to the moon accurately enough to determine it is getting 3.8 cm furhter from the earth each year, I'm pretty sure 10cm is well outside the margin of error for measurements of something as simple as a building.