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Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

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Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#71
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? I think there is an empirical question one step beyond this. Does a pedophile who sees AI child porn get inured to it and then go on to try to act out fantasies with real victims? Or does this give pedophiles a way to satiate their desires indefinitely with only AI-based content, and lead to a lower portion abusing actual kids? A second order issue is that dist…

Allowing AI generated realistic CSAM while prohibiting real CSAM creates a real enforcement problem. Do prosecutors now need to find and identify depicted victims to prove a CSAM charge? Does believing material was AI generated serve as a defense? We already have severe limitations on fictional depictions of this type of content so prosecuting AI depictions isn't anything particularly new.

> Do prosecutors now need to find and identify depicted victims to prove a CSAM charge?

Surely that would be a good thing if it incentivizes prosecutors to track down the purveyors and distributors instead of just stopping with easily targeted consumers. With nothing to establish beyond mere possession, by some metrics their performance is optimized to the contrary, much like the war on drugs.

> Does believing material was AI generated serve as a defense?

Believing that stolen property was legitimately acquired is a defense against a charge of possession of stolen property, as is plausibly claiming to have been set up. The alternative enables anyone with physical access to cause anyone else to be guilty of a crime, surely a net negative for society.

> We already have severe limitations on fictional depictions of this type of content so prosecuting AI depictions isn't anything particularly new.

Are you advocating its expansion to a general principle? Maybe Agatha Christie should have faced charges for the crimes committed by her characters.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How?

By cultivating a market for CSAM.

How is it different than the company making fake rhino horns to flood the market to fill the demand and reduce harm to real rhinos?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fac...

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#74
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no different than the logic behind medication regulation. Some substances are known to induce bad/undesirable/harmful behavior and need to have access restricted. There may be a scientific argument about whether or not the argument is correct in this particular case, but the legal paradigm is sound. Yes, basically. You can absolutely criminalize fake images.

I would say the difference between drugs and images is that the first amendment doesn’t protect drugs. This then becomes an argument about the limits of the first amendment.

The US constitution doesn't constrain French criminal law. But regardless, you're wrong in the US too: the first amendment absolutely does not "protect images", c.f. the fact that you can be prosecuted for distributing CSAM at all. We've already crossed the rubicon where we agree that the "speech" is illegal. The quibble under discussion here is whether or not the justification for the ban applies to synthetic images.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#75
post #72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By cultivating a market for CSAM.

How is it different than the company making fake rhino horns to flood the market to fill the demand and reduce harm to real rhinos? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/10/fac...

I don't know enough about how the market for rhino horns works to say. If putting fake rhino horns on the market encourages a more thriving market for rhino horns that then places a premium on real rhino horns, it can indeed be harmful to supply fake rhino horns: the practice will then have a foreseeable net effect of killing more rhinos.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#77
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing AI generated realistic CSAM while prohibiting real CSAM creates a real enforcement problem. Do prosecutors now need to find and identify depicted victims to prove a CSAM charge? Does believing material was AI generated serve as a defense? We already have severe limitations on fictional depictions of this type of content so prosecuting AI depictions isn't anything particularly new.

> Do prosecutors now need to find and identify depicted victims to prove a CSAM charge? Surely that would be a good thing if it incentivizes prosecutors to track down the purveyors and distributors instead of just stopping with easily targeted consumers. With nothing to establish beyond mere possession, by some metrics their performance is optimized to the contrary, much like the war on drugs. > Does believing materi…

> Surely that would be a good thing if it incentivizes prosecutors to track down the purveyors and distributors instead of just stopping with easily targeted consumers

It would make it harder to prosecute purveyors and distributors. Arguing to some amorphous 'incentive' under some unnamed "metric" is silly since we have much better ways of creating incentives if you think the investigatory or prosecutorial priorties need to shift.

> The alternative enables anyone with physical access to cause anyone else to be guilty of a crime, surely a net negative for society.

No it doesn't as these defenses are unchanged.

> Are you advocating its expansion to a general principle? Maybe Agatha Christie should have faced charges for the crimes committed by her characters.

Work on your reading comprehension instead of making ridiculous claims. I'm not advocating anything. I am describing the current legal state in our country. If you are unfamiliar with the laws about creating fictional porngraphic material with underage characters, then google is your friend.

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#78
post #10
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

I can, will, and do create whatever imagery I want, no matter how I create it, and no matter what anyone else's opinion about that is. I will look at or think about that potentially depraved shit as often, hard, and long as I want, I will feel about that however I want, and no one in this big world of control freaks can or will do anything about any of that.

Ew

Re: Man Arrested for Creating Child Porn Using AI

#79
post #3

Obvious disclaimer first: I do not condone imagery of child abuse, I believe this guy has some kind of psychological problem and needs professional help, AI-generated deepfakes can actually cause real harm and proper regulation is needed. With that out of the way: > the generative AI wrinkle in this particular arrest shows how technology is generating new avenues for crime and child abuse. Is it really child abuse if…

If the model was trained on CSAM then it’s definitely still CSAM, like the comment in this thread comparing it to cut cocaine, but if it wasn’t it sure seems like a thought crime.
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