Earlier quoted context omitted.
Telegram also only supports E2EE in one-to-one chats, so any bad guys operating out of group chats / channels are definitely doing so in the clear.
What are the downsides to telegram providing default E2EE? Seems like a no brainer to have it as a default feature for the product.
Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
221–230 of 878 posts
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of those was @rtnews which is definitely state-sponsored propaganda and remains inaccessible to this day. They cooperated to some degree, but I'll go out on a limb to say that the authorities wanted Telegram to be fully subservient to western government interests.
So what if it is state sponsored propaganda? Most media is biased in some way. It shouldn’t be censored. I want to hear their side of the story too.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does Meta cooperate with the authorities? Isn't Whatsapp supposed to be end-to-end encrypted?
isn't meta only end to end encrypted in the most original definition in so much that it is encrypted to each hop. but it's not end to end encrypted like signal.. ie meta can snoop all day
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
You really ask why? This isn't about serving justice - it's statuary example for anyone trying to run an unmoderated platform.
IANAL and not that familiar with the legal situation, but if we assume that running a platform of this type requires you, by law, to moderate such a platform and he fails to do that, idk what we are talking about. Yes, he would clearly be breaking the law. Why would that not get prosecuted in the completely normal, boring way that I would hope all law breaking will eventually be prosecuted? If you are alleging that t…
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#225> jpost.com > • 5 hours ago > Pavel Durov, Telegram founder, arrested by France following warrant - The Jerusalem Post > The alleged offenses include: terrorism, narcotic supply, fraud, money laundering and receiving stolen goods. For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) ar…
This Signal you trust? https://kitklarenberg.substack.com/p/signal-facing-collapse-... Anyway, while it's possible to activate a Telegram account without a physical phone (using some temporary number services) or using an (relatively) anonymous SIM card 99% of users use it via Android or iOS and that's means there is no need to grab data from Telegram, USA gov. as well as Apple or Alphabet could simply milk them from…
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#226This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do [...] maybe I'm just being naive? In this case, the comment does strike me as naive. Back in the 1990s the tech community convinced itself (myself included) that Napster had zero ethical responsibility for the mass piracy it enabled. In reality, law in a society is supposed to serve that society. The tech community talked itself into believing tha…
This should be obvious to everyone here, but it's pretty much inevitable that if a backdoor exists, criminals will eventually find their way through it. Not to mention the "legitimate" access by corrupt and oppressive governments that can put people in mortal danger for daring to disagree.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#228This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…
There is a legal distinction here between what happens on your platform despite your best efforts (what you might call "incidental" use) vs what your platform is designed specifically to do or enable.
Megaupload is a perfect example. It was used to pirate movies. Everyone knew it. The founders knew it. You can't really argue it's incidental or unintended or simply that small amount that gets past moderation.
Telegram, the authorities will argue, fails to moderate CSAM and other illegal activity to the point that it enables it and profits from it, which is legally indistinguishable from specifically designing your platfrom for it.
Many tech people fall into a binary mode of thinking because that's how tech usually works. Either your code works or it doesn't. You see it when arguments about people pirating IP being traced to a customer. Tech people will argue "you can't prove it's me". While technically true, that's not the legal standard.
Legal standards relay on tests. In the ISP case, authorities will look at what was pirated, was it found on your hard drive, was the activity done when you were home or not and so on to establish a balance of probabilities. Is it more likely that all this evidence adds up to your guilt or that an increasingly unlikely set of circumstances explains it where you're innocent?
In the early days of Bitcoin I stayed away (to my detriment) because I coudl see the obvious use case of it being used for illegal stuff, whichh it is. The authorities don't currently care. Bitcoin however is the means that enables ransomware. When someone decides this is a national security issue, Bitcoin is in for a bad time.
Telegram had (for the French at least) risen to the point where they considered it a serious enough issue to warrant their attention and the full force of the government may be brought to bear on it.
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dotcom got extradited (which was declared legal much later). Durov landed in a country that had an arrest warrant out for him. I hope his situation isn't similar to Dotcom's, as Dotcom was shown to be complicit in the crimes he was being persecuted for. Convicting the megaupload people would've been a LOT harder if they hadn't been uploading and curating illegal content on their platform themselves. As a service prov…
From my understanding the arrest warrant only was created while he was en route; sneaky sneaky..
Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn
#230I was fully expecting him to be arrested by a third world dictatorship somewhere but, no it's my home country, France. I'm ashamed of my country. Most of the traffic on Telegram is not even encrypted... EDIT: Yes, reading more about it, nothing to see here, it's not about encryption...
So technically telegram could provide that data.
I guess that's the angle.