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BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

electriccarsreport.com

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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#301

Post by amelius »

to11mtm wrote: post #27
amelius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they pack the batteries in the floor, making the car necessarily higher? Isn't this the biggest difference? And the weight, of course.

> Don't they pack the batteries in the floor, making the car necessarily higher? Isn't this the biggest difference? Batteries in the floor make a good amount of sense if done right . 1. Just the battery for a -hybrid- (1.1kWh) can weigh at least half as much as a 3 cylinder engine. putting it either under the front or in the trunk is an issue, as now you have to have a more reinforced firewall or reinforced whatever…

Yes, they make sense. But the point was that it's how you can recognize the EV version of a BMW.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#302

Post by tim333 »

epistasis wrote: post #157
mensetmanusman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political party that ignored Tesla’s accomplishments because of union politics?

The further subsidies were not "ignoring achievement" they were subsidies that were shifting to include union labor. The idea that it has anything to do with Tesla, as opposed to anything else, is a bit weird. If one or two Republicans like the idea of EV subsidies without union labor, their votes could have shifted everything. But of course, there was universal condemnation of these polices by all Republicans.

>The idea that it has anything to do with Tesla, as opposed to anything else, is a bit weird.

At the time of Biden's electic car summit in 2021 to which Tesla was not invited, Telsa had 75% of the EV market in the US.

The idea that US's EV policy didn't have anything to do with its largest EV company is perhaps surprising.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#303

Post by tim333 »

shinycode wrote: post #240

I’m sorry, is there really that much people buying brand new cars ? I feel so poor when I see those prices and I’m not (for a European). The prices of new cars shock me. I even feel like people criticize the price of an iPhone or AVP because it’s too expensive but with cars … the price of a paint is the price of the iPhone (metaphorically, options are really expensive) and nobody debate any of that ?

I'm surprised that they've become so expensive. You'd think that as manufacturing improves they would be cheaper to churn out.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#304

Post by tim333 »

primitivesuave wrote: post #222
kanbara wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lived in germany for 8 years. the living heiress to a biscuit company fortune is still a nazi sympathiser today. nobody cares about the bmw founder who is dead. every company in germany had ties to the NSDAP, let’s focus on real nazis and antisemites and racists (elon) not dead ones.

Genuinely curious here and not trying to start a debate or sound rhetorical (I just don't keep up with the news that much) - what did Elon do that was racist?

Not that much as far as I can tell. He's against DEI and uncontrolled immigration across the US Mexico border.

He also annoyed me as a Brit recently retweeting some stuff that civil was inevitable in the UK because we'd let a lot of muslims in. Not that I think you shouldn't be able to criticize islam but it's very far from the reality here and there's no need to amplify a lot of bunk from people who have probably never been to the UK.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#305

Post by acdha »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #237
NightlyDev wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, BYD passed Tesla in sales in Q4 2023. Tesla was ahead, but that is no longer the case.

Byd is selling $10k vehicles. Those would be considered nice golf carts in the us.

This isn’t remotely true unless your golf carts are equipped with climate control, comfortable seats, entertainment systems, etc. and have ranges measured in the hundreds of miles. They’re selling well internationally because they’re a good deal and countries which don’t have domestic car manufacturers to protect aren’t trying to keep them out. The U.S. has tariffs because Detroit has been chasing the luxury market and isn’t prepared to compete on price.

https://apnews.com/article/china-byd-auto-seagull-auto-ev-ca...

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#306

Post by fy20 »

linotype wrote: post #97
darkteflon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 was such a great city car, well ahead of its time. Such a shame that they have apparently abandoned the EV design ethos embodied in that car (and that car alone) in favour of bloated luxo-barges. Tell me that your EV strategy is about brand greenwashing without telling me it’s about brand greenwashing. They seem to be really focused on chasing the Boomer demographic. I’m a happy former customer (twice over) bu…

Many (not all, obviously) boomers will never buy an EV because of identity politics in the midwestern United States. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true elsewhere as well. Why they’re not pumping out $25k 250 mile range city cars for millenials and gen z is a mystery to me.

In Europe the Dacia Spring is available for under €20k on the road, and it is a proper car similar to others in the compact range - not a toy like the Citroen Ami (that thing doesn't even have heating). However it's really the only car like that available in Europe, and Dacia isn't exactly known for it's reliability (sorry Romania).

Plus at that price point they are not competing with other compacts - which aren't that popular anyway - but with a 2-4 year old used car. One of my collegues just bought a 4 year old Toyota Avensis for the same price. Which one do you think will last longer?

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#307

Post by avar »

Retric wrote: post #297
avar wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing the thrust of your point here, just noting that there isn't a 1:1 correspondence in case anyone's under that particular misconception. I agree that registrations is probably the least bad metric, and I doubt BMW is gaming it in this case. But saying it isn't gameable is a bridge too far. Manufacturers can trivially game it, it's just marginally more expensive to do so than to shift manufacturing numbe…

The problem with self dealing is they need to pay taxes at registration. So while sure you can inflate the numbers it isn’t just an on paper thing this is treated as a sale and there’s real consequences of that. As to shifting the quarter something is sold, people aren’t getting a car before registration here. Selling of excess inventory at a discount is still actual sales.

Sure, but now we've shifted from "isn’t gameable" to "gameable for a price", perhaps to inflate the stock price as you make the news for outselling Tesla or something.

And yes, you'd need to deliver the car to consumers. I'm just saying that you can time shift when that happens, if you wanted to inflate the numbers in the short term for whatever reason.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#308

Post by amluto »

foobazgt wrote: post #269
amluto wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that “triple pane glass” (which I’m pretty sure is laminated glass, not insulated glass), keep in mind a little design issue common to every Tesla ever made: the complete lack of any non-electrical way to open a door from outside. If there’s an electrical failure and someone needs rescuing from the car at all quickly, one needs to break a window. If all the window glass is laminated, this is not so easy. There a…

Yes, I suppose if - after ignoring the persistent warning you had days in advance that the 12v is dying - you lose power in the exact few seconds between - first securing every vehicle door - and then proceeding to open any other door - and there's another passenger inside - and they are also incapable of operating a door then you will have to either jump your 12v or otherwise somehow unlock your door. The odds are d…

This may be unlikely, but there are actual reports of this happening:

https://www.popsci.com/technology/tesla-lock-issue/

I have also been (briefly) locked out due to what may have been RFI. Teslas are entirely dependent on radio to unlock the doors from outside.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#309

Post by mensetmanusman »

slg wrote: post #257
mensetmanusman wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing speech is different than recommendations.

I personally don't have a problem with any site having a rule of "don't be an asshole on our platform." It's the first rule of this site, for example.

That’s different than being fired if you use standard English parlance.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#310

Post by cscurmudgeon »

peutetre wrote: post #251
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump has said openly that he will support EVs Source? Recent news says otherwise. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-would-conside...

Trump says he's for electric cars because "I have to be, you know, because Elon endorsed me very strongly, Elon. So I have no choice": https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/elon-musks-endor... What Trump is really saying is that he's for sale. Trump also told the oil industry he's for sale. He said they should give him $1 billion and that would be a "deal" because he would help them avoid taxation and regulatio…

> Joe Biden Rewards Donors With Admin Positions in Broken Promise to Voters

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-rewards-donors-admin-posi...

https://www.barrons.com/articles/trump-harris-election-campa...

I feel that what Trump says out loud publicly others say behind the cameras away from mics with a wink and a nudge.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/26/two-billionaire-harris-donor...

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