The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Maybe. Still going to have the best selling car in the world this year.
I thought Chinese electric car are selling way more than Tesla around the world.
BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#62And yet today BWM's marketcap is about $70bn (~53bn Euros) vs Tesla's $690bn. Is there really 10x the potential? Edit: My formulation is confusing. I meant whether folks really think that Tesla will eventually have 10x BMW's revenue.
No theres about 100x
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
And a technical sense yes but the only new model they’ve released recently is the cyber truck. Otherwise their sedans and crossovers outwardly appear to be basically the same thing they were selling in 2012. Meanwhile, BMW has a fleet of eight different electric vehicles, with more modern styling, leather, and just the ability to differentiate. Of course, Tesla is well into the black on their models whereas I doubt t…
The new Model 3 is new and has lots of interior features not found in competitors' cars of the same price range (ventilated and heated rear seats, screen for rear occupants, ambient lighting, Autopilot as standard, etc).
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#64And yet today BWM's marketcap is about $70bn (~53bn Euros) vs Tesla's $690bn. Is there really 10x the potential? Edit: My formulation is confusing. I meant whether folks really think that Tesla will eventually have 10x BMW's revenue.
I’d suggest that Tesla is high rather than BMW being low. It’s the only way for a normal person who is a Musk fan to buy into any part of his empire, so you have demand from people who are Musk fans and express that fandom by buying stocks.
Sorry, that's what I meant, but formulated badly... Do people really think that Tesla has a 10x future revenue upside compared to BMW.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
> a consequence of Elon's strong support. What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.
> Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund
I don't think he has publicly announced anything like that. Actually, he denied it.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jul/24/e...
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#66The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
Isn't that also because of the actions of its owner?
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#67Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
> a consequence of Elon's strong support. What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.
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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
The political party that ignored Tesla’s accomplishments because of union politics?
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#70The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…
Was it not the mission of Tesla to make electrical cars an alternative to cars running on petrol? To me this was achieved. Bmw or Tesla, i do not care about that too much. But we have an alternative. Great!
And politics, well, only for people who do not agree with him it is an issue. But that's normal in politics, is it not?