The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
I don't think this is much of an influence in the European market.
BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
51–60 of 341 posts
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
> a consequence of Elon's strong support.
What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#53And yet today BWM's marketcap is about $70bn (~53bn Euros) vs Tesla's $690bn. Is there really 10x the potential? Edit: My formulation is confusing. I meant whether folks really think that Tesla will eventually have 10x BMW's revenue.
I’d suggest that Tesla is high rather than BMW being low. It’s the only way for a normal person who is a Musk fan to buy into any part of his empire, so you have demand from people who are Musk fans and express that fandom by buying stocks.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
And a technical sense yes but the only new model they’ve released recently is the cyber truck. Otherwise their sedans and crossovers outwardly appear to be basically the same thing they were selling in 2012. Meanwhile, BMW has a fleet of eight different electric vehicles, with more modern styling, leather, and just the ability to differentiate. Of course, Tesla is well into the black on their models whereas I doubt the BMW will get out of the red anytime soon.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla has massively benefited from subsidies to EVs, but is alienating the political party that has enabled all of that. Well, he's expecting some reciprocity from the next administration for all his help, and Trump has said openly that he will support EVs as a consequence of Elon's strong support.
> a consequence of Elon's strong support. What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.
Musk never announced that.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
I'm not a "car person", so forgive me if this is wildly off, but it always seemed like Tesla was going for the market segment of "not super rich, but wealthy enough to afford luxury"... That is, it's been positioned as a 'luxury' brand. Dropping prices doesn't seem like it would be productive in that context. (Quality improvements, as you mentioned, certainly will, tho.)
> their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality
Can you please expound on this? What does this mean in more concrete terms?
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#57Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
I really want this narrative to be true because I actually do like Teslas, but I can’t find any evidence for any of your claims.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.
>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.
The step-change is real, and a lot of people don't know that Tesla now has the best self-driving ability out of all the competition. But that's only true on 4th gen hardware, and unfortunately that represents a minority of the vehicles sold to date.
Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time
#60The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.
I'm not convinced that's actually the dominant factor. The market share for EVs is still small enough that there's no real shortage of buyers. But it turns out that having a hundred years of domain experience building cars actually matters for something. Tesla cars have had a lot of avoidable failures on technical merits.
Hasn't seemed to matter for sales or profit. Every big oem loses money on their cars. Hows that for an avoidable failure