The PAF file only returns a 9% profit (based on a 2009 report)
https://web.archive.org/web/20090324084021/http://www.psc.go...
We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
271–280 of 317 posts
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#272On the other side of the Channel, the French government has managed to create the "BAN" (Base Adresse Nationale - National Address Database), a database of detailed postal addresses in the country along with precise GPS coordinates: https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/base-adresse-nationale On top of the database they have provided an interface to view the data, interfaces for towns and cities to keep the data up-to-date, f…
Next step, automatically feed all the roads, speed limits, temporary blocks/construction sites automatically into OSM or similar accessible data.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#273Why bother paying attention to all this legal mumbo-jumbo?
Just have someone exfiltrate the file and post it on Anna's Archive. Or extract them from Open Street Map.
Just bypass the Royal Mail altogether.
Or just ignore the postcodes. For most private individuals an ordinary street address works perfectly well and is needed anyway even if the postcode is provided.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some larger retail stores in Germany ask you for your postcode during checkout, presumably to learn a bit about their customer base. I don't mind telling them mine, there are about 16K people with the same postcode. But I'm pretty sure I would not tell them if I was one of the two forest rangers in Reinhardswald. (And yes, I do pay cash whenever I can.)
Interesting, is the German postcode not used for transaction validation? I know the American payment processors definitely use ZIP codes for validation - see anecdote 1. That said, there are definitely situations where the payment processors don't require the ZIP code - see anecdote 2. Anecdote 1: When I worked in food service as a kid, I used card terminals that connected directly to a phone line. I remember a coupl…
ZIP codes are used as a weak "something you know" factor in payment card processing.
The card is (for card-present transactions) "something you have". And the ZIP complements that. ZIP code is optional, but the merchant gets a data integrity score back from the network ("AVS/address verification service response", from no match to full match), and can accept/decline the txn at their discretion.
Because it's optional and at merchant discretion, all it really does is give the merchant some additional ammunition when disputing a chargeback. And of course to build a demographic database.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just modify the law so that databases of postal addresses are not copyrightable.
so modify the law to deprive an owner of their legal property which was given to them by the law? Not sure that's a precedent I'd want set in a common-law country, and not sure that would hold up to judicial review under common law. The government made a bone-headed mistake when they included the postal data as an asset in the sale. The solution is for them to admit their mistake and pay for it. It's fiat money anywa…
It would just be a change of law or regulations. Governments change these all the time, and sometimes it costs people or businesses money.
In any case, nationalisation has a long history in the UK, so it would hardly be setting a precedent.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
That sounds like chaos. Who thought constructing multiple apartment buildings without any kind of sensible post code or address was a good idea? Sure, this being reality BAN does not apparently meet reality, but it does sound like someone had the opportunity to keep reality sane here, and they didn't.
I think it means more towards that Uber Eats never works for that BAN than local post office have no clue and snail mail fails. GP didn't say the latter is the case.
You're right. Since the postal worker knows his route, he knows my name. So snail mail works perfectly well. Same for the Amazon delivery person (took a few visits). Same for the local pizza place.
It's online address suggestion/validation/one-time deliveries that don't work well. E.g. Uber Eats and DHL drivers always require a phone call so that I can guide them along the final hundred meters of their delivery. I usually go downstairs and meet them at the curb.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the government decided that it does want to do this, it can't just pass a law that says "the PAF is now free" without paying hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Royal Mail. You can pass the law, get sued and pay whatever the PAF is worth. But that's just.. fair? The govnerment spent 5 mio just for a survey concluding that it's impossible to recreate the PAF. So hundreds of millions sounds like a go…
Just to be clear: UK Parliament is sovereign. If it passes a law forcibly legalising it, the privatised Royal Mail can sue the government but would need to find an international treaty obligation to win. Even then, if Parliament flagged it and said "we're ignoring this treaty in this case" then the courts are bound to the law, not treaty obligations. If it has knock-on impacts in other areas, it's hard to say, but th…
International courts - especially US ones - have de facto overrides on UK sovereignty in many domains.
If Royal Mail put the asset into a US subsidiary then US courts must protect it.
Regardless of what the UK domestic authorities say, very few entities would be willing to risk violating US copyright laws.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#278As he points out, this was a profoundly stupid mistake made when privatising Royal Mail. It would have been trivially easy to do at that point, but now it's a lot harder. If the government decided that it does want to do this, it can't just pass a law that says "the PAF is now free" without paying hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Royal Mail. That's quite apart from the ongoing costs of maintaining th…
Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.
The government gave up its property rights when the Royal Mail was privatised.
Taking it would be like taking back a Rolls Royce factory, BP oilfield or other formerly state owned asset.
The state could nationalise the asset in theory, but that’d involve leaving international treaties and causing foreign copyright issues.
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#279As he points out, this was a profoundly stupid mistake made when privatising Royal Mail. It would have been trivially easy to do at that point, but now it's a lot harder. If the government decided that it does want to do this, it can't just pass a law that says "the PAF is now free" without paying hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Royal Mail. That's quite apart from the ongoing costs of maintaining th…
Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.
If only Crown Copyright worked like the US system where the output of the government was generally considered public in almost all cases.
I just checked the status of OS maps copyright and it looks like a Dumpster fire:
Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
When did this almost Reaganite sentiment ("I'm from the government and I'm here to help") make home in the UK? I know it's not recent: I remember similar arguments coming from the No2ID camp in 2005 at-least.
I'm saying this as quite a strongly left-wing person. I am very much in favour of competent government intervention and regulation of markets. But the current government, probably since Thatcher, has shown themselves to be incapable of delivering large-scale national projects.
Take the aircraft carriers for example, we’ve currently got 2 but only purchased enough aircraft for half of one.
Whether you view this as a mistake of over investment or under investment, it’s clearly a mistake of some sort.
See also HS2.