We need to liberate the Postcode Address File • Hacker News Board

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#241

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

amiga386 wrote: post #230

willyt wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'The Post Office' is a private company. Wasn't the Horizon system implemented after privatisation?

No. The Post Office is not a private company, it's a public limited company with the government as sole shareholder. It was changed from a government department to a statutory corporation in 1969. It was then changed to a public limited company in 2000. Furthermore: - Post Office Ltd owns and runs Post Office Counters Ltd which runs the post office branches. This is the company that uses Horizon (since 1999) - Royal…

> it's a public limited company with the government as sole shareholder.

...isn't that PR China's business-model: state-capitalism?

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#242

Post by gabesullice » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:16 PM UTC

BobaFloutist wrote: post #228

Propelloni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like bad design by the property developer and a sloppy building authority. The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing? The BAN actually only tracks down to the plot level, so I assume all your structures are on the same plot. From there on it is the building authorities job to check building plans and to enter the substructures into the cadastre, where they are usually le…

Yeah wait how is it the BAN's fault that you don't have unit numbers, that's like complaining that you never receive your letters "just because" your house just fully doesn't have any street address and the post office needs to figure it out better without any involvement on your part.

Because datasets like the BAN exist to document how actual people and places are to be addressed. People and places don't exist to be addressed by the BAN.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#243

Post by alexchamberlain » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:17 PM UTC

To be clear, is the National Address Gazetteer open? As far as I can tell, it isn't, but I don't know if that's because they're trying to obfuscate it.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#244

Post by immibis » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:36 PM UTC

Propelloni wrote: post #133

gabesullice wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cautionary example of how data meets reality… My address in France is listed in the BAN… but only to the granularity of my street number (e.g., 123 Main St.). Unfortunately, that number corresponds to at least 7 different structures, 5 of which are apartment buildings. Of those 5 buildings, each has multiple stairwells with their own door and no line of communication between them—they might as well be separate buil…

This sounds like bad design by the property developer and a sloppy building authority. The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing? The BAN actually only tracks down to the plot level, so I assume all your structures are on the same plot. From there on it is the building authorities job to check building plans and to enter the substructures into the cadastre, where they are usually le…

> the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing?

Everyone in Germany. Units are identified by the surname of the person who lives there. If there's more than one person living there, too bad, pick one or write them all.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#245

Post by n4r9 » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

devnullbrain wrote: post #186

n4r9 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of the UK government attempting to do such a thing fills me with the utmost dread.

But they already have. The Post Office was still nationalised when post codes were distributed.

True, but it's specifically the modern UK government - with its penchant for outsourcing jobs to ministers mates and bloated contractors - whose competency at large scale projects I dread.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#246

Post by nickdothutton » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:45 PM UTC

Recent history teaches that the Post Office should be the last company on earth to be anywhere near creating a nationally important IT system. Their technology team have been useless for decades.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#247

Post by nimish » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:50 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #178

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't it be taken for free? The system and data was created by a publicly owned body, surely Crown copyright.

I have no idea what UK law is. In the US the data itself is public domain, but the compilation is of data is copyright. Maps commonly would intentionally have errors in to detect copying - the error is creative work and so a copyright violation to copy so if someone copies your map you can sue them for copyright violation for not just the errors but also that compilation. If you take someone else's map and then use t…

> compilation is of data is copyright

Not by default, at least in the US. The database has to actually be more than just a compilation. It's not a high bar to clear, but it's there. Europe and the UK have the "sweat of the brow" doctrine however.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#248

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:57 PM UTC

inphus0rian wrote: post #221

Propelloni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like bad design by the property developer and a sloppy building authority. The first is corroborated by the lack of unit numbers. Who does such a thing? The BAN actually only tracks down to the plot level, so I assume all your structures are on the same plot. From there on it is the building authorities job to check building plans and to enter the substructures into the cadastre, where they are usually le…

apartments in france often (if not always) do not have unit numbers. i always thought it is to preserve anonymity.

Would not the opposite be true? If you have to write your name out just so the mail can find you, you are less anonymous than if you just have a number that gets mail directly to your mailbox.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#249

Post by n4r9 » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 7:58 PM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #113

n4r9 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of the UK government attempting to do such a thing fills me with the utmost dread.

When did this almost Reaganite sentiment ("I'm from the government and I'm here to help") make home in the UK? I know it's not recent: I remember similar arguments coming from the No2ID camp in 2005 at-least.

I'm saying this as quite a strongly left-wing person. I am very much in favour of competent government intervention and regulation of markets. But the current government, probably since Thatcher, has shown themselves to be incapable of delivering large-scale national projects.

Re: We need to liberate the Postcode Address File

#250

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #237

svpk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA does have zip+4 which is an extension on the zip code system and sounds like it’s about as specific as the UK one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_Code#ZIP+4

In some cases, your zip+4 is uniquely your address, too. My townhouse was a new development and after complaining for over a year that I wasn't able to sign up for Informed Delivery, I was assigned a new unused +4. That said, most people don't use the +4 when getting directions or the like, it's just used for postal service.

> it's just used for postal service

Even then, to my understanding the USPS has for some time now not relied on zip codes at all. They have a really good address database, they match on that, and then stamp the mail with a routing barcode at the origin post office. The zip code is extra, mail flows just fine if you leave it off.