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Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

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Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#61

Post by xtracto »

tpoacher wrote: post #32
0xEF wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the need to point out that it's not difficult for people whose identity is not centered around their jobs, since I see that disconnect in the comments. I found the author's take full of the pageantry that I often associate with people who make big deals out of fairly inconsequential things, but before I begrudge the author their take, I have to remember that my career is of relatively little importance to me.…

I think academia is one of those special places where a lot of people who enter it are altruistic and idealistic, and consider it a part of their identity to make a change in the world in a larger sense. You are literally taking a pay-cut, willingly, in order to make the world a better place. At least in theory. So, in that sense, academia is (or at least used to be) more akin to monasteries than corporations. Not th…

>You are literally taking a pay-cut, willingly, in order to make the world a better place

This is a pretty interesting take. I feel that it may be even a bit "western " if not 'American ' centric.

In my country Academia is perceived as a "ladder" in the socioeconomic level. It's one of few ways people coming from low class can actually climb their SE level. As such, there is a different kind of pressure one side, and on the other, a lot of people are 'living their best life' doing the academia dance.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#62

Post by xtracto »

bowsamic wrote: post #59
xtracto wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was more of a 'good riddance' moment haha . But I ded finish my PhD and a postdoc, so I didn't leave with a feeling of 'I have failed ' I remember though, that feeling when I was doing my PhD and I got the quits fever. I think a lot of people struggle mentally when they quit in the middle mainly because of a sense of defeat. To them I would say scree it. If you found out the stupid churn of the academia pro…

I did a PhD and postdoc too. My issue was how drawn out it was. I had a 3 year postdoc contract with great pay, so it seemed like a really bad idea to quit. Basically I spent 3 years wanting to quit but knowing I couldn't because it made no economic sense. Our group leader didn't care at all. He was totally fine with me sitting around earning money while doing everything. I think I would have done far better if I wer…

Golden handcuffs. I've had them in previous industry jobs as well. I understand how frustrating it is.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#63

Post by ghaff »

KineticLensman wrote: post #34
bowsamic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving academia is like this. It's very sticky and scary to leave. I remember how devastating it was for me. I think it's because there's a very strong sense of a missed dream, and that you can never return.

Another anecdata point... For me leaving academia was a big challenge - I'd have to find a job, pass interviews, move home, etc, etc. Scary stuff! But as soon as I had actually done this, my new career path in industry went smoothly, and my first year in industry massively improved my personal confidence. As an academic I was surrounded by other academics, but in industry I was forced to interact and communicate with…

At some level in industry you have at least the potential to have the paradox of choice. Of course, some people are perfectly happy and successful with roles that are essentially the same in the fundamentals from one company to the next. But others largely reinvent themselves with each new role both between different companies and even within the same one. That really isn't an option in academia.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#64

Post by hemloc_io »

ryukoposting wrote: post #58

> We create meaning around the stress and soften transitions with rituals and rites of passage. I graduated into the height of the pandemic, so I never had a graduation ceremony. Instead, they played a shitty video presentation over Zoom and my parents cracked open a beer and watched it on TV. By the time I got invited back for a ceremony, I had already moved hundreds of miles away from my university. Obviously, I tu…

As someone who also graduated during the pandemic an moved across the country.

Maybe man, but honestly it just isn't the same as actually getting to say goodbye to your friends.

Out of all of the things that went poorly that year, ppl missing their graduations is definitely pretty low on that list, but on a personal level it just really sucked having your entire social circle just disappear out of your life basically randomly.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#65

Post by esafak »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #40

I'm afraid I can't relate. I initially invested a lot of time in my first choice of career (over a decade) and just left last year. I walked out the door, said goodbye, and the next day it was out of my mind. That being said, I think the key is keeping a strong mental separation between "passion for a field of work" and "predetermined path by society to actualize that passion". The latter, in my opinion, is something…

If you wanted to become a doctor, say, and flunked out of school, how would you find another path to become a doctor; start again in another country? Sometimes the cost of failure is high.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#67

Post by mp05 »

esafak wrote: post #65
vouaobrasil wrote: post #40

I'm afraid I can't relate. I initially invested a lot of time in my first choice of career (over a decade) and just left last year. I walked out the door, said goodbye, and the next day it was out of my mind. That being said, I think the key is keeping a strong mental separation between "passion for a field of work" and "predetermined path by society to actualize that passion". The latter, in my opinion, is something…

If you wanted to become a doctor, say, and flunked out of school, how would you find another path to become a doctor; start again in another country? Sometimes the cost of failure is high.

Easy, just apply to a osteopathic medicine program.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#68

Post by dustincoates »

ryukoposting wrote: post #58

> We create meaning around the stress and soften transitions with rituals and rites of passage. I graduated into the height of the pandemic, so I never had a graduation ceremony. Instead, they played a shitty video presentation over Zoom and my parents cracked open a beer and watched it on TV. By the time I got invited back for a ceremony, I had already moved hundreds of miles away from my university. Obviously, I tu…

> Obviously, I turned down the offer. I sometimes wonder if I'll regret that choice later on down the line.

I could not tell you a single thing about my graduation ceremony.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#69

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

ryukoposting wrote: post #58

> We create meaning around the stress and soften transitions with rituals and rites of passage. I graduated into the height of the pandemic, so I never had a graduation ceremony. Instead, they played a shitty video presentation over Zoom and my parents cracked open a beer and watched it on TV. By the time I got invited back for a ceremony, I had already moved hundreds of miles away from my university. Obviously, I tu…

I don't regret skipping college graduation and I barely remember high school graduation

I do regret that I didn't join any clubs in college until my last semester, and that I didn't make the kind of friendships I wanted

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#70

Post by beezle »

Tazerenix wrote: post #22
roel_v wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to highjack this topic, but she was recommended (like to many others of you no doubt) quite a bit in my Youtube feeds over the last few months; and the first few videos I watched seemed to be solid enough. Yet as I watched a few more, I couldn't shake the feeling that she's so out of left field that she's not just a 'quirky renegade' anymore, but rather a quack who dresses up her quackery with just enough 'real'…

As an expert in at least some of the things Sabine makes videos about (string theory), Sabine is a contrarian who, if you are not otherwise an expert on what she is talking about, it would be best to avoid. Sabine, like many contrarians, takes advantage of the fact that there are smart and convincing criticisms of many mainstream ideas, and she does her best to rely on those criticisms. However like all contrarians s…

Sabine has repeatedly touched the third rail of current day physics - the string theory industry and HEP. The comment above reflects that.

On the latter, her beef is not that HEP has not made signficant discoveries in the past, rather that the costs going forward can no longer be justified and starve many, many other areas of physics of needed funding. Compounding her disdain for future projects are the increaingly lofty claims of what will be discovered since inception of LHC. Do you really think she is alone on this?

On the former, who is the crank here? The person with the advanced degree calling out the failure of a 50 year old theory to make one scientifically provable and confirmed prediction? (I could say 80 years if going back to the beginnings with S-matrix theory)

I'll grant that some maths have been developed that may be tangentally useful but other than enriching the publishing industry, what has string theory brought? Zilch. It seems that the more public this becomes, the louder the cries of those with deeply vested interests. I can think of no other large theory that has gone for so long with no experimental confirmations at all and is not likely to in mankinds future either.

As to MOND like theory, Sabine has had varying degrees of support over the past twenty years as data has come in and theory has changed. Very frankly, the reason to give a degree of trust to her on other subjects too is because she is willing to be objective and call people out on their BS.

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