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Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

franceshocutt.com

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Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#51

Post by noelwelsh »

prof-dr-ir wrote: post #42
fruffy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So my question is - just how serious should she (and others like her, who denounce 'mainstream' academia as much as those other fringe groups who go on and on about the corruption of 'mainstream' media) be taken? Anyone have an opinion on this? I know nothing about her but the video on her experience in academia is spot on. It's a pretty common experience among STEM academics. You will face the point where you have…

Can I ask what you mean with "pretty common"? Do you think more than half of all STEM graduate students had a similar experience as she did? Do you have actual data to support this? I am asking this because HN neems to be so much more negative of academia than what I am seeing around me. More generally I think it is worth stressing that any site like this can be a terrible echo chamber at times. Generally there are s…

I did a PhD in CS. There were certainly some students who had a bad experience, but I don't think it was the majority or even near the majority. I think 1 in 5 is a reasonable guess. The ones who did do tend to be more vocal about it, which is natural.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#52

Post by thenoblesunfish »

I made a similar move and felt a similar sense of loss. I wish I had had the mental clarity at the time to throw fun parties instead of just trying to keep life together. I'm comforted by the fact that in my new career there are great people, just like there were in academia, and that my friends who stayed there are either (a) truly great scientists (b) struggling basically with the same things (money, politics, , people, "work") that most people in most white collar jobs struggle with.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#53

Post by lucraft »

> "You are formally invited to A WAKE for THE RESEARCH SCIENCE CAREER of FRANCES HOCUTT FRIDAY from 7 PM to MIDNIGHT"

When I quit my PhD I had an Ungraduation Party! My wife made a cake and everyone sang Happy Ungraduation To You! It was sad and happy but overwhelmingly such a relief to get out

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#54

Post by andai »

roel_v wrote: post #16
emmelaich wrote: post #9

Reminds me of Sabine Hossenfelder's "My dream died, and now I'm here" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8

Not to highjack this topic, but she was recommended (like to many others of you no doubt) quite a bit in my Youtube feeds over the last few months; and the first few videos I watched seemed to be solid enough. Yet as I watched a few more, I couldn't shake the feeling that she's so out of left field that she's not just a 'quirky renegade' anymore, but rather a quack who dresses up her quackery with just enough 'real'…

You're asking the crowd for their opinion on someone who goes against the opinion of the crowd?

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#55

Post by xtracto »

prof-dr-ir wrote: post #42
fruffy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So my question is - just how serious should she (and others like her, who denounce 'mainstream' academia as much as those other fringe groups who go on and on about the corruption of 'mainstream' media) be taken? Anyone have an opinion on this? I know nothing about her but the video on her experience in academia is spot on. It's a pretty common experience among STEM academics. You will face the point where you have…

Can I ask what you mean with "pretty common"? Do you think more than half of all STEM graduate students had a similar experience as she did? Do you have actual data to support this? I am asking this because HN neems to be so much more negative of academia than what I am seeing around me. More generally I think it is worth stressing that any site like this can be a terrible echo chamber at times. Generally there are s…

Let me add another point of anectdata. I did my CS PhD with a full scholarship in the UK. Then a 3.5 year postdoc in a great Leinbiz institute in Germany. Part of a huge EU project (in Framework Programne 7)

By all measures, I was "living the life" in academia. with both my parents being academics (both researchers and pretty published in their fields)

Yet, I left it after the project finished. The prospect of having to write papers just because. The amount of trash papers I had to review for free but then looking at the cost of proceeding books (I got them for free through my institution... but what a racket it is!!)

The prospect of the "academic path" ((abitur, lecturer, associate prof and then prof) praying the stupid game..

I left it all and turned to the startup world . Maybe it was my engineer mind, but I feel way more fulfilled after 12 years in industry.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#56

Post by 11101010001100 »

Reading their first post about leaving https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/i-didn-t-want-to-lean-ou..., I'm not sure how seriously I should take this piece. 'They don't tell you ...'. Of course not, but they certainly hint at it. This is something that goes well beyond academia...

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#57

Post by xtracto »

bowsamic wrote: post #12
the_real_cher wrote: post #6

Seems a bit dramatic

Leaving academia is like this. It's very sticky and scary to leave. I remember how devastating it was for me. I think it's because there's a very strong sense of a missed dream, and that you can never return.

For me it was more of a 'good riddance' moment haha .

But I ded finish my PhD and a postdoc, so I didn't leave with a feeling of 'I have failed '

I remember though, that feeling when I was doing my PhD and I got the quits fever.

I think a lot of people struggle mentally when they quit in the middle mainly because of a sense of defeat.

To them I would say scree it. If you found out the stupid churn of the academia process is not for you, leave without remorse.

It's like game programming. It's fantasized during childhood, but once you get in and see the swamp it is, you realize it's either for you or it isn't no shame at all in leaving.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#58

Post by ryukoposting »

> We create meaning around the stress and soften transitions with rituals and rites of passage.

I graduated into the height of the pandemic, so I never had a graduation ceremony. Instead, they played a shitty video presentation over Zoom and my parents cracked open a beer and watched it on TV.

By the time I got invited back for a ceremony, I had already moved hundreds of miles away from my university. Obviously, I turned down the offer. I sometimes wonder if I'll regret that choice later on down the line.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#59

Post by bowsamic »

xtracto wrote: post #57
bowsamic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving academia is like this. It's very sticky and scary to leave. I remember how devastating it was for me. I think it's because there's a very strong sense of a missed dream, and that you can never return.

For me it was more of a 'good riddance' moment haha . But I ded finish my PhD and a postdoc, so I didn't leave with a feeling of 'I have failed ' I remember though, that feeling when I was doing my PhD and I got the quits fever. I think a lot of people struggle mentally when they quit in the middle mainly because of a sense of defeat. To them I would say scree it. If you found out the stupid churn of the academia pro…

I did a PhD and postdoc too. My issue was how drawn out it was. I had a 3 year postdoc contract with great pay, so it seemed like a really bad idea to quit. Basically I spent 3 years wanting to quit but knowing I couldn't because it made no economic sense. Our group leader didn't care at all. He was totally fine with me sitting around earning money while doing everything.

I think I would have done far better if I were simply fired.

Re: Mourning and moving on: rituals for leaving a career (2014)

#60

Post by helsinki »

ryukoposting wrote: post #58

> We create meaning around the stress and soften transitions with rituals and rites of passage. I graduated into the height of the pandemic, so I never had a graduation ceremony. Instead, they played a shitty video presentation over Zoom and my parents cracked open a beer and watched it on TV. By the time I got invited back for a ceremony, I had already moved hundreds of miles away from my university. Obviously, I tu…

You won’t.
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