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Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

practical.engineering

271–280 of 352 posts

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't understand how rail network work without telling me you don't understand how rail networks work.

Preface: I don't like this architecture. I think things need to change. I'm just describing what is . These are people coming from several dozen square miles and dispersing into several dozen square miles, flowing through these chokepoints. They're commuting 40, 50, or more miles. You'd need these people to change several bus lines and several train lines. Those busses would be snaking through messy suburbs for them…

I was replaying specifically to the 'all people go to the same place'. Just as you have highway interchanges, you have railway interchanges (that are much cheaper). Railways can go into multiple directions and intersect with other modes of transports.

I do understand the problem in the way the infrastructure is build in the area and that it isn't easy to just change and go to trains, that's not what I was suggesting.

I was specifically responding too:

"Assuming every single commuter is coming from and going to the same place, sure."

And that if of course nonsense. The whole point of a network is that you can route from one place to another. I didn't propose a whole new transport plan for the whole area. And I am not pretending that within 1 year you can change all of Texas infrastructure. I was simply pointing out a fundamentally flawed argument.

> But this is also kind of a best case of someone taking the train versus driving.

Well, this is the best case in particular situation you are describing where that kind of infrastructure has been under-invested in for 100+ years. Its not the best case for public transit.

It should NEVER take 30 min to swap from one train to another. In all of Switzerland you 90% of all connections are 10min or less. That's for the whole country including buses. If the train infrastructure was more modern and electric, trains could likely be faster. If the buses had their own lanes (not like Texas doesn't have enough lanes) the avg speed of the bus could likely be improved quite a lot.

This is just about infrastructure choices, apparently Texas can build tons of super complex incredibly expensive highway interchanges but an electric train that leaves every 15min is apparently impossible.

DoT in Texas is still on that 1960 highway building mania and is still destroying black neighborhoods so that subburban wight people can get to their office jobs at the oil company or whatever. The first step is recognizing the problem, and they are still working on that.

The whole area seems like its pretty dense with a lot of people, I don't see why it couldn't have good transit. Even just with buses on existing roads. As long as you make some room for them and give them the appropriate priority and so on. A lot could be done for not that much money, if people actually wanted.

On of the biggest problem in the US is that your tax system if fundamentally unfair and massively subsidizes suburbia. That's arguable one of the most important things that need to change. I strongly suggest looking at the work done by Urban3 and Strong Towns.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#272
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll accept that. Somehow I forgot to mention truck nuts. Car culture is something else entirely in Texas.

Truck nuts? https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/driving/wp-content/...

I prefer the xl hex nut version. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7977898649_342f5462ba.jp...

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#273
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During rush hour most people are going from their homes to places of employment, which are generally highly concentrated. The "homes" part is distributed, true, but guess what, once you have a good rail network, it provides decent coverage for that (which you can complement via walkability/bikeability/scooterability :-p, which makes for more liveable environments). And "train commuter rage" is much less frequent than…

> During rush hour most people are going from their homes to places of employment, which are generally highly concentrated. That used to be true in the US. But over the past 50 years, the dominance of the automobile combined with traffic patterns (and related real estate trends) have incentivized the opposite to happen. Suburban commercial development facilitates easier parking, and quicker commutes over secondary hi…

My father commuted suburb-to-suburb for most of the years I lived at home, say 1958 to 1975. My impression was that this was not unusual then. But I had limited information about what any particular grownup did.

Department stores are fewer and fewer now. Most of the big malls around the Washington, DC, area are gone.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#274

i resent the default cynicism that is trendy when discussing highway infra. A clear bias against cars as ugly, dirty , polluting, etc. This interchange provides food and prosperity to millions of people. And it's an incredible feat. The cynical attitude is just cliche and tacky give it up.

...just wait til you see this about North American (US and Canada) firetrucks: https://youtu.be/j2dHFC31VtQ?t=21

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#275
post #138
post #26

First time I visited the US it was Houston, Texas. My host was perplexed because I laughed out loud while we were driving. Experiencing highways and those massive gas stations felt like someone had made a state that mocked America by taking prejudices we have about the American traffic and making them 200% larger in real life. My mind was blown.

Houston native here. I still guffaw when I see a massively lifted truck (but with a pristine bed, no scratches - so not even a work truck). Everything's bigger in Texas, including egos.

State vehicle: pavement princess

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is awesome like this, they have amazing highways and rail. Tokyo in my option is a bit too car friendly but it’s still very walkable and rideable.

Japan is an extremely small island. I don’t think a lot of their experience would apply to us. China may be a better example.

Extremely small island that stretches from New York to Atlanta..

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#277
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, The Strip is nothing like living in Las Vegas. Nothing. Las Vegas, outside The Strip, is basically Phoenix, except there's video poker machines in the grocery stores.

… and the C-stores, and the bars (which are open 24/7).

and all the bars and casinos allow smoking indoors to the detriment of all of their staff and patrons simply because of the gambling lobby.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#278
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the 500k people all commute between 6am-9am and 3pm-8pm, that means this interchange moves 160k people per hour. That's 1½-2½ commuter rail lines or about 3-4 subway lines. Such interchanges are truly a monument to stupidity.

That's 500k vehicles not 500k people. While the plurality of vehicles could be single-occupant passenger vehicles, a good chunk of those vehicles are freight, multiple-occupant passenger vehicles, and some are even busses.

Sure, and we'd still need a highway and an interchange to handle the busses, trucks and taxis that'd remain.

But that could probably be handled by a US Highway and a diamond interchange instead of multiple interstates and a 6-layer interchange.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't understand how rail network work without telling me you don't understand how rail networks work.

Preface: I don't like this architecture. I think things need to change. I'm just describing what is . These are people coming from several dozen square miles and dispersing into several dozen square miles, flowing through these chokepoints. They're commuting 40, 50, or more miles. You'd need these people to change several bus lines and several train lines. Those busses would be snaking through messy suburbs for them…

> Potentially a 30 minute wait for the next train at peak times.

See, that's already an issue. Even in small European cities, you'd expect the trains at peak time to arrive every 5min, in larger cities even every 1-2min

A train every 30min is what I'd consider "3am on easter sunday" level of service, not peak service.

Sure, right now there's not enough demand for that. But as they say, if you build it they'll come.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is awesome like this, they have amazing highways and rail. Tokyo in my option is a bit too car friendly but it’s still very walkable and rideable.

Japan is an extremely small island. I don’t think a lot of their experience would apply to us. China may be a better example.

Honshu is the 7th largest island in the world. It's area is a little more than 1/3 of texas.
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