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How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

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Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#51

Post by DevX101 »

It was enlightening to read/watch the realtime assessments of the sabotage from US leadership. The original storyline from American leadership was that Russia did it. That this story got any legs was an insult to the intelligence of any thinking person. The pipeline was a major revenue source for Russia, and probably a major reason why Germany was slow to back Ukraine.

Eventually leadership realized that this was a terrible angle, and now the story is that they have no idea who did it.

My take is that it was either Ukraine or the U.S. And even if it was Ukraine, it was done with the U.S. president's approval and tactical support.

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#52

Post by petre »

K7J6H5G4 wrote: post #19

[flagged]

They used a shabby charter yacht and the main suspect is named Volodymyr Z? Sure. The CIA has a sense of humor.

I'll stick with Seymour Hersh on this until there's a more credible story, since I doubt I'll live to see the declassified CIA report.

Norway? Why not? They like the Russians as much as their neighbour Finland and they also have gas. According to Hersh's article it offered a base for the operation.

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#53

Post by jaynetics »

themgt wrote: post #21

Yet this could be precisely why the saboteurs used [Andromeda]. To stay undetected and unaccountable — which they managed to do until the charges were made public this week. It's well worth reading the Spiegel piece from a year ago, which is far more in-depth and goes over a lot more of the evidence and plausibility of the scenario. It's odd to me ARD would put out this highly similar but 90% slimmed down and far les…

I guess the ARD take is intentionally more on the side of infotainment. There's also this WSJ article from a few days ago which purports to know some very specific facts and even to have quotes from participants of the operation: https://archive.ph/Ka8HB

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#54

Post by [deleted] »

IshKebab wrote: post #39
greenavocado wrote: post #4

While technically possible, carrying a 500 kg payload at depths beyond 50 meters is extremely challenging and would typically involve commercial diving teams, saturation diving techniques, or the use of ROVs. Handling a 500 kg payload is more feasible at shallower depths due to lower pressure and shorter decompression requirements. At 30-50m depths, the challenges increase, and more sophisticated equipment (e.g., lif…

Why would you need 500kg of explosives? That's massively overkill.

[deleted]

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#55

Post by [deleted] »

slau wrote: post #22
greenavocado wrote: post #4

While technically possible, carrying a 500 kg payload at depths beyond 50 meters is extremely challenging and would typically involve commercial diving teams, saturation diving techniques, or the use of ROVs. Handling a 500 kg payload is more feasible at shallower depths due to lower pressure and shorter decompression requirements. At 30-50m depths, the challenges increase, and more sophisticated equipment (e.g., lif…

Where does the 500kg figure come from? I don’t see it in the article. I’m also surprised about the 220lb figure mentioned in the article. Assuming a steel twinset, and 4 extra cylinders, we barely get to 60-70kg. Where do the remaining 30-40kg come from?

[deleted]

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#56

Post by greenavocado »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #47
greenavocado wrote: post #4

While technically possible, carrying a 500 kg payload at depths beyond 50 meters is extremely challenging and would typically involve commercial diving teams, saturation diving techniques, or the use of ROVs. Handling a 500 kg payload is more feasible at shallower depths due to lower pressure and shorter decompression requirements. At 30-50m depths, the challenges increase, and more sophisticated equipment (e.g., lif…

"Handling a 500 kg payload" 1kg would be enough to breach a pipe. A single determined diver, not necessarily following OSHA rules could do it. The question I have is, what side is Germany on? They're cutting or suspending military aid, they are indicting Ukrainians, they are blowing up their own energy production making them more dependent on Russian natural gas. WTH? https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-halt-new-…

In a letter to the U.N. Security Council from Sept. 29, three days after the incidents, Denmark and Sweden said they believed that “several hundred kilograms” of explosives had been used to damage the pipes, each of which measures more than three-and-a-half feet in diameter and is made from steel encased in weighted concrete.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/25/world/europe/nord-stream-...

https://archive.is/00tvb

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#57

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

DevX101 wrote: post #51

It was enlightening to read/watch the realtime assessments of the sabotage from US leadership. The original storyline from American leadership was that Russia did it. That this story got any legs was an insult to the intelligence of any thinking person. The pipeline was a major revenue source for Russia, and probably a major reason why Germany was slow to back Ukraine. Eventually leadership realized that this was a t…

We were consuming different media at the time. I do not recall anyone serious making definitive statements about the perpetrators. Too many groups had the motive and opportunity to execute the plan. Given the small crew size required, it would not have even required national backing to execute. A professional diving crew would possess all the required equipment without additional funding.

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#58

Post by dtquad »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #47
greenavocado wrote: post #4

While technically possible, carrying a 500 kg payload at depths beyond 50 meters is extremely challenging and would typically involve commercial diving teams, saturation diving techniques, or the use of ROVs. Handling a 500 kg payload is more feasible at shallower depths due to lower pressure and shorter decompression requirements. At 30-50m depths, the challenges increase, and more sophisticated equipment (e.g., lif…

"Handling a 500 kg payload" 1kg would be enough to breach a pipe. A single determined diver, not necessarily following OSHA rules could do it. The question I have is, what side is Germany on? They're cutting or suspending military aid, they are indicting Ukrainians, they are blowing up their own energy production making them more dependent on Russian natural gas. WTH? https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-halt-new-…

The German security, media, and political establishment has been completely infiltrated by Russia over the past 30 years. So many of Germany's bad decisions over the past few decades can be explained by this.

Germany taking in millions Syrians is often viewed by critics through the lens of "(naive) empathy". But they were just helping Russia get rid of anti-Assad Syrians.

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#59

Post by [deleted] »

tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote: post #38
greenavocado wrote: post #4

While technically possible, carrying a 500 kg payload at depths beyond 50 meters is extremely challenging and would typically involve commercial diving teams, saturation diving techniques, or the use of ROVs. Handling a 500 kg payload is more feasible at shallower depths due to lower pressure and shorter decompression requirements. At 30-50m depths, the challenges increase, and more sophisticated equipment (e.g., lif…

Do you really think that a team blowing up a pipeline as part of an on ongoing war is necessarily going to follow all best practices and safety recommendations? I think your comment is bizarre. Did you use an LLM to write it? I don't think many humans would write Lift Bag Management with L, B, M in upper case like that.

[deleted]

Re: How did divers manage to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?

#60

Post by marcosdumay »

audunw wrote: post #46
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, describing a gas pipeline which already wants to explode. You just need to provide the ignition. You do not want to make a second attempt, but something more modest seems like it would have been just as effective.

Do the pipelines want to explode? How high is the pressure? There’s no oxygen there so the gas itself won’t explode. The pipeline must be fairly heavy duty to handle pressure and rough conditions on the seabed. And punching a small whole is probably not enough as it could potentially be fixed?

> How high is the pressure?

It's probably similar to a normal gas tank, as the gas is liquefied inside it.

If it "wants" to explode or not will depend on how it's built. But the one sure thing is that the explosive is on the wrong side of it (outside), so all the important forces are on shear and other secondary effects.

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