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The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

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Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#71

Post by joe5150 »

creer wrote: post #69
joe5150 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not indeed? If there is an orchestra's worth of musicians available and an audience there with the taste and curiosity necessary to support avant garde performing arts, anything can happen. It's easier now than ever to put a band together in your college town or even record and release music without ever leaving your bedroom, but beyond that scale you still need a critical mass of creative collaborators all in on…

There are orchestras everywhere. Because musicians want to play and directors want to direct and any random school has a performance hall. Whether they are all that good is another question, but that's true of big cities in the US also. And audience is still another question: I expect you don't get to have all that much of an audience until you have somewhat made it. No doubt Philip Glass didn't start with much of an…

"Big bucks" is the last thing I'm talking about. I'm not talking about symphony subscribers and other blue hairs in a concert hall. I'm talking about an audience of creative peers.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#72

Post by louthy »

Philip Glass and Steve Reich worked together as removals men. For some reason I find it fascinating that the two greats of minimalist composing did this. It shouldn’t be that strange, I have plenty of struggling musician friends who work day jobs together. Perhaps it’s the fact that they both became greats, or just my reverence for them that makes it seem fascinating (or perhaps it's just the mental image of Philip Glass and Steve Reich moving a sofa up some stairs!)

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#73

Post by creer »

ilamont wrote: post #4

Many of my cultural heroes were ignored by academia Ignored, or the jobs just weren't there? A department head once told me that she couldn't hire any new tenure-track faculty. Turnover at the school is so rare, and when a position does open up, there are literally hundreds of highly qualified applicants. It's been that way for decades, particularly in the humanities and arts. She noted that among the existing facult…

There are a lot of jobs in teaching and most are not tenured. And that's probably true of many disciplines, not just art. Many are not even full time. So... depending what you are looking for, it may not be a comfortable situation - but it might be good enough as a day job. At least if teaching art is within your tolerance for a "not toxic" job... From an economics perspective, the fact that plenty of people teach art without tenure may have something to do with why so little tenure is available.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#74

Post by creer »

neaanopri wrote: post #54
debo_ wrote: post #46

> Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill—but that’s Philip Glass for you. I don't know what this means. I worked a lot of "blue collar jobs" in my time, and I'd often see people reading "serious books" on break. It's not uncommon. I read a lot of Hemingway because of recommendations I got from a dude I used to work with cleaning concrete truck drums with jackhammers.

I'd almost say high concept books pair better with blue collar work. I'm mentally exhausted after a day of meetings or programming, but if I'm doing manual labor I end up physically exhausted, not mentally exhausted

A great illustration of what "not toxic" means. For you manual labor seems fine as a day job. (While for other people it might be the opposite.)

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#75

Post by creer »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #17

His experiences are completely alien now and not reproducible today. How is it possible to get any blue collar job at all without extensive training and certifications on your own time and with your own money in that very specific field? How is it possible to not only be able to support your family on 3 working days per week, but to find a boss willing to hire you as a part time worker for what seems like a high wage…

And yet so many people do it. Really.

Many stories tell that one secret is "showing up". For many jobs, the boss has a long list of ideal requirements. Even a retail manager would loooooove to find someone with solid experience and recommendations (and is a buddy, jk, or am I?). Anyway. And then also keeps around people who simply reliably show up.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#76

Post by creer »

joe5150 wrote: post #71
creer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are orchestras everywhere. Because musicians want to play and directors want to direct and any random school has a performance hall. Whether they are all that good is another question, but that's true of big cities in the US also. And audience is still another question: I expect you don't get to have all that much of an audience until you have somewhat made it. No doubt Philip Glass didn't start with much of an…

"Big bucks" is the last thing I'm talking about. I'm not talking about symphony subscribers and other blue hairs in a concert hall. I'm talking about an audience of creative peers.

Okay that's an interesting one. Any artists trying to create something new and different around here? How does it work with the "peers" around you? How does it work with other artists, art writers, gallerists, patrons, etc?

What I have noticed of this, and my readings seem to point to the reaction of people around someone in an uncharted direction like PG being a mix of "bemused but admirative and encouraging", and "ignored". And what proportion of the "peers" is now online? IG and such? (For an artist in my life, IG seemed to be an essential lifeline. A main connection.)

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#78

Post by kevinventullo »

creer wrote: post #67
kjellsbells wrote: post #40

Could a new composer replicate this? is too broad a question. Rather, - could they support themselves with a blue collar job? - could they support a family with said job, as the primary breadwinner? - could they do it in X, where X is the geographic location of the cultural center of their art form? Glass was lucky enough to hit all three. Today's young artists might be lucky to hit 1, and maybe the internet helps wi…

What do you mean? It's still normal to have a "blue collar job", isn't it? Not to mention "retail"? Whether or not one is an artist. "Many" people do that and support their family that way. And it's still normal for artists to have a day job. Not just for young ones. I don't think the Philip Glass story is all that different from today's artists'. More retail, less steel mill. if anything, there is more awareness now…

I have no data to back it up, but my instinct is that “today’s artists” are increasingly supported by rich parents or spouses when compared with those of 50 years ago.

This is a consequence of wealth concentration and the destruction of the middle class.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#79

Post by dbspin »

jancsika wrote: post #43
joe5150 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. vatys isn't asking if you can make any living this way, because of course you can. The specific conditions that allowed Philip Glass to work part time jobs and still live in the same city as people like Steve Reich and institutions like The Kitchen don't exist anymore.

> If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. Congratulations-- you're officially wrong on the internet! Meet Harry Partch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Partch He roamed as a hobo for years during the Great Depression. The text for Barstow is graffiti that he saw scrawled on highway railings during that time. It's featured in m…

Em... Harry Parch was living off Guggenheim and Carnegie grants at the start of the great depression. He was also celebrated and known in New York early in his career (while working menial jobs). He absolutely didn't rise from obscurity while living in a rural area. He was still receiving grants while travelling as a 'hobo' at the height of the great depression. He wasn't exactly cosplaying poverty, but it's a total mischaracterisation to craft a narrative where he was discovered while living that life.

> People who care about music will find interesting musicians, no matter where they live

This is the 'just world hypothesis' and survivorship bias combined. Some very talented people will be discovered despite their circumstances. An enormously larger number will not. You won't know you don't know them.

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