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The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

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Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#61

Post by joe5150 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #28
joe5150 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. vatys isn't asking if you can make any living this way, because of course you can. The specific conditions that allowed Philip Glass to work part time jobs and still live in the same city as people like Steve Reich and institutions like The Kitchen don't exist anymore.

> If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. I'm not so sure. A lot of art comes out of "affordable areas" — sometimes small college-town ghettos like Athens, Georgia, for example. Why couldn't we get a Philip Glass from Manhattan, Kansas?

Why not indeed? If there is an orchestra's worth of musicians available and an audience there with the taste and curiosity necessary to support avant garde performing arts, anything can happen. It's easier now than ever to put a band together in your college town or even record and release music without ever leaving your bedroom, but beyond that scale you still need a critical mass of creative collaborators all in one place to pull it off.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#62

Post by joe5150 »

jancsika wrote: post #43
joe5150 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. vatys isn't asking if you can make any living this way, because of course you can. The specific conditions that allowed Philip Glass to work part time jobs and still live in the same city as people like Steve Reich and institutions like The Kitchen don't exist anymore.

> If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. Congratulations-- you're officially wrong on the internet! Meet Harry Partch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Partch He roamed as a hobo for years during the Great Depression. The text for Barstow is graffiti that he saw scrawled on highway railings during that time. It's featured in m…

Okay, and supposing an artist doesn't want to be a hobo or a hermit?

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#64

Post by failrate »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #17

His experiences are completely alien now and not reproducible today. How is it possible to get any blue collar job at all without extensive training and certifications on your own time and with your own money in that very specific field? How is it possible to not only be able to support your family on 3 working days per week, but to find a boss willing to hire you as a part time worker for what seems like a high wage…

I mean, I could probably get you a job washing dishes in 15 minutes. You are not picky, are you? Labor Ready is always hiring.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#65

Post by pinkmuffinere »

neaanopri wrote: post #54
debo_ wrote: post #46

> Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill—but that’s Philip Glass for you. I don't know what this means. I worked a lot of "blue collar jobs" in my time, and I'd often see people reading "serious books" on break. It's not uncommon. I read a lot of Hemingway because of recommendations I got from a dude I used to work with cleaning concrete truck drums with jackhammers.

I'd almost say high concept books pair better with blue collar work. I'm mentally exhausted after a day of meetings or programming, but if I'm doing manual labor I end up physically exhausted, not mentally exhausted

+1, very much in the tradition of “we want what we can’t have” and “a change is as good as a rest”

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#66

Post by forgetfreeman »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #26
gedy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think a lot of people miss that these jobs opened up when the population was growing much faster due to the baby boom, plus people are living longer. Things have changed since the 1950s-80s.

but people have more income now - surely working for uber or lyft today is the equivalent of driving a cab then?

Absolutely not. Cost of living increases and the like. Consider, back then single income households were the norm because you could absolutely afford a house, car in the driveway, and raise a couple kids on a single blue collar income. Hell, in the late 90s you could make rent on a studio apartment in a single weekend delivering pizza if tips were decent.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#67

Post by creer »

kjellsbells wrote: post #40

Could a new composer replicate this? is too broad a question. Rather, - could they support themselves with a blue collar job? - could they support a family with said job, as the primary breadwinner? - could they do it in X, where X is the geographic location of the cultural center of their art form? Glass was lucky enough to hit all three. Today's young artists might be lucky to hit 1, and maybe the internet helps wi…

What do you mean? It's still normal to have a "blue collar job", isn't it? Not to mention "retail"? Whether or not one is an artist. "Many" people do that and support their family that way. And it's still normal for artists to have a day job. Not just for young ones.

I don't think the Philip Glass story is all that different from today's artists'. More retail, less steel mill.

if anything, there is more awareness now that a day job is normal. And that the main concern is that this job needs to not be "toxic". That is, it needs to leave you enough energy to do your art. That's the main requirement.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#68

Post by thread_id »

kjellsbells wrote: post #40

Could a new composer replicate this? is too broad a question. Rather, - could they support themselves with a blue collar job? - could they support a family with said job, as the primary breadwinner? - could they do it in X, where X is the geographic location of the cultural center of their art form? Glass was lucky enough to hit all three. Today's young artists might be lucky to hit 1, and maybe the internet helps wi…

I have a friend who lives near NYC and is a theatre director for a company in St Louis. Travels in person 1 week a month and remote with Zoom the other 3 weeks. It pays better than what he gets in his local market and allows him to support his family and spend more time with his children. Opportunities and life has changed significantly since COVID.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#69

Post by creer »

joe5150 wrote: post #61
JKCalhoun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Philip Glass had had to live in "rural nowhere" in order to afford to make music, we would have never heard of Philip Glass. I'm not so sure. A lot of art comes out of "affordable areas" — sometimes small college-town ghettos like Athens, Georgia, for example. Why couldn't we get a Philip Glass from Manhattan, Kansas?

Why not indeed? If there is an orchestra's worth of musicians available and an audience there with the taste and curiosity necessary to support avant garde performing arts, anything can happen. It's easier now than ever to put a band together in your college town or even record and release music without ever leaving your bedroom, but beyond that scale you still need a critical mass of creative collaborators all in on…

There are orchestras everywhere. Because musicians want to play and directors want to direct and any random school has a performance hall. Whether they are all that good is another question, but that's true of big cities in the US also. And audience is still another question: I expect you don't get to have all that much of an audience until you have somewhat made it. No doubt Philip Glass didn't start with much of an audience.

Most artists that try to invent something new start with essentially no audience. They don't create that for the big bucks.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#70

Post by markvdb »

kjellsbells wrote: post #40

Could a new composer replicate this? is too broad a question. Rather, - could they support themselves with a blue collar job? - could they support a family with said job, as the primary breadwinner? - could they do it in X, where X is the geographic location of the cultural center of their art form? Glass was lucky enough to hit all three. Today's young artists might be lucky to hit 1, and maybe the internet helps wi…

Frameworks and examples now exist showing how to gain this freedom. Jacob Lund Fisker[0]'s ERE[1] in particular is an interesting system theory based approach .

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Lund_Fisker

[1] https://earlyretirementextreme.com

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