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X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

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301–310 of 474 posts

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#301
post #135

Fwiw... As a tendency, Irish labour courts tends to find in favour of employees... but also tend to award relatively small compensation. A headline making award is pretty rare. Judge must not be a Twitter fan.

If it's an illegally biased opinion then presumably it will be overturned on appeal. Otherwise Irish law looks prohibitively business-unfriendly.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the mother has multiple children, it’s not really practical for a company to hold their spot open for like 8 years and I don’t think this happens even in the most progressive of European countries. Almost no one in Europe has 8 children but I know women who went on maternity leave 3 times. Generally kills your career as you don‘t advance during those years (and most only work part time afterwards) but the origin…

> Almost no one in Europe has 8 children You don’t need 8 children to get to 8 years of dedicated child care with the pre-daycare-normalization worldview. You only need 2 children with an offset of 3 years, or 3 children with less offset.

Fair point, I‘ve been considering todays standard of one year off for each child.

That said, at least in Germany, you can‘t get to 8 years with 2 children as the maximum time for parental leave is capped at 36 months per child.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary. Companies could even offer that as an option. We pay you $97k with no labour protections, or $68k but we promise to give you all the labour rights that Germany has, including nice long holidays, unions, no unpaid overtime, can't be fired without cause, etc. Your choice. (And those figures are the median programmer salary in the USA and…

> You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary. Yes. And I appreciate those labor protections enough that I gladly pay for them. I could still buy a car, a house, raise a family, have some savings, etc. The stability and security provided by the labor protections are very much appreciated, a lot more than some extra cash would be.

> I could still buy a car, a house, raise a family, have some savings, etc.

You are an outlier. Very few SDEs in EU can afford to raise a family in their own SFH on a single salary while living in a location with any notable IT jobs market.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have "unlimited" vacation here in the states. If you go over three weeks, they still require special paperwork, but they allow it if you are tenured enough. What unlimited means is "as long as your manager is decent, you will maybe get your days off" vs accrued vacation where you may be forced to take vacation to not lose it.

My last office job had unlimited vacation and I never used it (not did most of my coworkers) and at the end of the year you neither had the days taken off nor had you accrued any credit for I taken time. At the job before that I had accrued 6 weeks of PTO, which was the max. I took every other Friday off after that and was paid out a month and a half when I left the company. Everyone understood the situation, so it w…

In addition to not having to pay out at the end of employment, they also do the "unlimited vacation" thing to reduce the liability of unpaid PTO on the books. When our revenue was hit hard in the early days of covid, the company I work for asked everyone to take a week of their PTO to help the financials look better.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#305

Good. The richest man in the world doesn't get to be above the law on account of being rich. If you own a company, that comes with responsibility and if you shirk those responsibilities the law will come for you; as it should.

Consider that the commission is also pushing US companies to avoid Ireland.

Pushing US companies that don’t follow local laws to not operate there?

Something tells me they’d be okay with that.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#306
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary. Yes. And I appreciate those labor protections enough that I gladly pay for them. I could still buy a car, a house, raise a family, have some savings, etc. The stability and security provided by the labor protections are very much appreciated, a lot more than some extra cash would be.

And the money is not the only problem, Europe is CHEAP compared to America, it's fascinating. I heard that wges are less than 50% but you end up saving more

> I heard that wges are less than 50% but you end up saving more

Curios regarding how you came up with that conclusion. After paying rent, taxes and buying some groceries from EU senior engineer's ~80k you will generally have enough to maybe buy a new smartphone at the end of the year, not any meaningful amount of savings.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#307
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unpaid two weeks of matternity leave" are you nuts? Holy sh.. "vacation longer than three weeks requires the company to stop paying your salary" What? Why is it called vacation then, I cannot comprehend this at all, heh. Don't tell them some EU companies even give unlimited PAID vacation, lol. Never experienced this myself, because I usually have "only" 5 weeks paids vacation, but unlimited HO. Of course in practice…

Unlimited vacation is a marketing bullshit. Can I work for 3 months there and go for vacation for another 9 months? Not really. Then it not unlimited. To have it really unlimited you need a special position, like be a relative of CEO. But in that case you can have the same even with limited vacation policy.

Yeah, it's just a scam so companies don't have to keep vacation on their books. It just means if you give your boss enough notice, maybe you'll get some time off, as long as your project is progressing well.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#308
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, in most (all?) jurisdictions, your employer doesn't really need to have a reason to fire you. They can fire everyone wearing red shirts, if they wanted to. There are also very few places providing leave (outside of white-collar positions). For example, my wife was given two weeks off from her job after having my son. The state we lived in only required maternity leave to be implemented at companies having…

My god, what a horrible life. My wife currently has 18 months fully paid maternity leave, and we’re having tons of family adventure with our little one who is already 9 months old. I couldn’t imagine not having that family time.

Yeah, I think people forget that when you are employed you are not the owner, you are sacrificing your freedom to serve someone else’s enterprise.

I think its very healthy and human to understand people have phases in life where they need to be cared for.

It’s very easy to have a narrow view of the world where everything would be fixed by the ‘market’.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#309
post #4

Would this be legal in any jurisdiction (click-or-be-fired)? I am not familiar with US labour laws, are employees actually at the level of indentured servants considering terms of employment (which I would expect to be a contract between TWO parties)?

In the US, in most (all?) jurisdictions, your employer doesn't really need to have a reason to fire you. They can fire everyone wearing red shirts, if they wanted to. There are also very few places providing leave (outside of white-collar positions). For example, my wife was given two weeks off from her job after having my son. The state we lived in only required maternity leave to be implemented at companies having…

Something to keep in mind on the maternity leave front…

Most short term disability insurance actually covers maternity leave for about 6 weeks. It’s really easy for employers to make sure this is part of their benefits package these days.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#310
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And revenue has dropped through the floor: https://fortune.com/2024/08/15/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sale-tw... https://mashable.com/article/twitter-x-revenue-falls-x-payme...

That first article entirely revolves around some random finance bro’s idle speculation in a YouTube comment. It blows my mind that people are so trusting of obvious guess work given that it’s a privately held company that’s not disclosing their financials.

> That first article entirely revolves around some random finance bro’s idle speculation in a YouTube comment.

I'm not sure that's a wholly accurate description? The article appears to point to sources beyond that singular comment - in particular, ostensible internal financial information:

> Ferguson based his assessment on internal second-quarter figures recently obtained by the New York Times. According to this report, X booked $114 million worth of revenue in the U.S., its largest market by far. This represented a 25% drop over the preceding three months and a 53% drop over the year-ago period.

> That already sounds bad. But it gets worse. The last publicly available figures prior to Musk’s acquisition, from Q2 of 2022, had revenue at $661 million. After you account for inflation, revenue has actually collapsed by 84%, in today’s dollars.

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