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X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

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241–250 of 474 posts

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW in Germany, if a company decides to lay off people just to save money, they have to coordinate with some government agency -- and if the company doesn't have financial trouble, those layoffs can be blocked. This happened to Alphabet/Google when they wanted to lay off 6% of their workforce, but were wildly profitable. They couldn't in Germany. (This probably wouldn't have applied in the Twitter case, because Twitt…

I know the subtext of this comment is "European labor laws are good." But it seems you've cited an example of something ironically very anti-labor. This means your government has codified into law the false idea that all human employees are undifferentiated commodities (like cattle). So as an employer, if there's no ability to remove underperformers every year, you've turned employment into a market for lemons, and c…

> But it seems you've cited an example of something ironically very anti-labor. This means your government has codified into law the false idea that all human employees are undifferentiated commodities (like cattle). So as an employer, if there's no ability to remove underperformers every year

No, that is not the case. You can still fire people and you can do so especially if they are underperforming. You just can't do it as a mass layoff.

If you fire someone then you need a reason to do so. If you fire people because of a layoff then you need to show that the layoff is legitimate.

You can not just group underperformers and let them go as a layoff because you are circumventing labor law. You can not lie about the reason why you are letting someone go.

No one would care if you fired 99% of your company IF you are prepared to show they were underperforming and that was the official reason given.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have "unlimited" vacation here in the states. If you go over three weeks, they still require special paperwork, but they allow it if you are tenured enough. What unlimited means is "as long as your manager is decent, you will maybe get your days off" vs accrued vacation where you may be forced to take vacation to not lose it.

> accrued vacation where you may be forced to take vacation to not lose it. I don't look at it that way. If you have accrued vacation, you "earned" your vacation and they can't take it away from you without compensation. Thus, you are guaranteed your days off. If they fire you, they should even have to pay you your salary for those vacation days. "Unlimited" vacation just gives all the control to your employer: the r…

Since everyone’s discussing the inverse, I shall mention that long ago I worked for a 100 person, 5 year old, startup who's policy was: your vacation is your year-end bonus. No one could take vacation ever, it just got paid out in December. They did give you Christmas and New Year’s off.

Getting sick was jokingly referred to as a firing offense, though people did take sick leave. Burnout was a real thing – and I barely lasted a year, though that may well have been unrelated.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#244
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unpaid two weeks of matternity leave" are you nuts? Holy sh.. "vacation longer than three weeks requires the company to stop paying your salary" What? Why is it called vacation then, I cannot comprehend this at all, heh. Don't tell them some EU companies even give unlimited PAID vacation, lol. Never experienced this myself, because I usually have "only" 5 weeks paids vacation, but unlimited HO. Of course in practice…

My brother in New Zealand only got two weeks off no pay for their baby.

Paternity != maternity but that's still awfully short IMHO.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#245
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who may not yet know why: US companies must pay out vacation time when employment terminates, meaning unpaid vacation affects liabilities and thus the balance sheet and thus stock price.

>US companies must pay out vacation time when employment terminates Doesn't that depend on the state?

It does, but I've never seen any company that doesn't pay for accrued time.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#246
post #122
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it wrong for people to voice views that you disagree with? The value of HN is hearing differing view points. It would be nice if people on HN tried to engage in a good willed nature rather than treating discussions like a struggle session. But to the topic at hand, in rapidly changing sectors, high levels of friction when it comes to employment has a cost. There is no free lunch in economics. When hiring employees…

That is unbelievable to me. You always have the right to quit, and penalties are rare. The laws depend on the country you're in of course, but I've never heard of three months, and I've lived in Europe my whole life. Would you mind sharing the country you were working in?

In England I had a 3 month notice period at a previous employer, luckily the employer I was going to was okay with waiting that amount of time.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#247
post #4

Would this be legal in any jurisdiction (click-or-be-fired)? I am not familiar with US labour laws, are employees actually at the level of indentured servants considering terms of employment (which I would expect to be a contract between TWO parties)?

In a lot of US jurisdictions there are rules that you have 21 days to review a severance agreement. My guess is that a "you have three days to agree" type notice may run foul of that.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#248
post #4

Would this be legal in any jurisdiction (click-or-be-fired)? I am not familiar with US labour laws, are employees actually at the level of indentured servants considering terms of employment (which I would expect to be a contract between TWO parties)?

In the US, in most (all?) jurisdictions, your employer doesn't really need to have a reason to fire you. They can fire everyone wearing red shirts, if they wanted to. There are also very few places providing leave (outside of white-collar positions). For example, my wife was given two weeks off from her job after having my son. The state we lived in only required maternity leave to be implemented at companies having…

> I do not miss the US; moving to the EU was the best decision I ever made.

It’s very easy to live in the EU with an US compensation.

I wonder if you will feel the same if you had a local job.

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#249
post #135

Fwiw... As a tendency, Irish labour courts tends to find in favour of employees... but also tend to award relatively small compensation. A headline making award is pretty rare. Judge must not be a Twitter fan.

The judge is biased by social media?

Re: X ordered to pay €550k to Irish employee fired after yes-or-resign ultimatum

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW in Germany, if a company decides to lay off people just to save money, they have to coordinate with some government agency -- and if the company doesn't have financial trouble, those layoffs can be blocked. This happened to Alphabet/Google when they wanted to lay off 6% of their workforce, but were wildly profitable. They couldn't in Germany. (This probably wouldn't have applied in the Twitter case, because Twitt…

[flagged]

If "innovation" equals firing a quarter of your company at a moment's notice because some psychotic C-level wants 3 cents more of profit this quarter, then I'll take stagnation, thanks.
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