How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#241

Post by koide » Mon, Jun 18, 2012, 6:49 AM UTC

WayneDB wrote: post #240

koide wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the US, but in other countries, slavery prostitution outlets are indeed persecuted and closed once found. Other prostitution outlets are tolerated (or encouraged.) My point is even assuming incorruptible law enforcement, these outlets would still exist, might last less if you wish. From there to saying it's a government sponsored slavery is a big step.

The government is complicit by keeping it illegal. If it were legal, it could be taxed and regulated like anything else. Most people are OK with letting others do what they want with their own body. It's certain puritanical, tyrannical, authoritarian and powerful government factions that don't allow that.

I'm not sure that by legalizing prostitution the slavery outlets would disappear.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#242

Post by fulafel » Mon, Jun 18, 2012, 12:25 PM UTC

malbertife wrote: post #193

dudurocha wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the tv show The Wire, third season, a Police Captain tried to 'legalise' drugs sale. He put all the dealers, the little soldiers, and said "If you deal in the streets, we will arrest you. If you deal in the free zone, you are free to go". At first, the dealers were very distrustful, but after some days, all the dealers were in the same place. And the addicteds learned that they could only buy drugs in that zone. T…

The Wire is excellent fiction, not a simulation. Something similar ("Needle Park") was attempted in Zurich in the eighties: a place where drug sale and use was officially tolerated. It was closed after a few years. Opinions are mixed.

Just like in The Wire, except Zurich version lasted a few years longer :L)

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#243

Post by vecinu » Mon, Jun 18, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

kvnn wrote: post #129

vecinu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numerous drug submarines have been uncovered since the article was written. It seems that they are badly made, some sink, others just break down. I found their software engineering to be much more advanced than their submarines.

I found their software engineering to be much more advanced than their submarines. Care to go on?

Sorry for the late reply.

I remember reading an article (That I cannot seem to find at the moment) about US border agents stopping a Cartel submarine dead in its tracks. What they found is a minimalistic submarine, capable of transporting a small load of product to a destination. They've found other submarines that have sunk due to their bad quality.

I think we're confusing actual military submarines with a makeshift version.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#244

Post by astrodust » Wed, Jun 20, 2012, 2:38 PM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #97

astrodust wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes, while harmful, don't result in instant death. Banning cigarettes would result in the same problem banning other drugs has created. The only things that should be "banned" are those that are so intrinsically harmful they cause severe, immediate, measurable harm to both the abuser and society. There aren't many drugs that people consume that qualify for this standard since to be able to continuously abuse s…

I agree with the spirit of your argument, but for reference 30mg of nicotine is fatal. It's a potent neurotoxin and is actively used as a pesticide. It would easily qualify as something "so intrinsically harmful [it] cause[s] severe, immediate, measurable harm."

By a very loose interpretation so would water and surely more people drown than die of a nicotine overdose.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#245

Post by astrodust » Wed, Jun 20, 2012, 2:45 PM UTC

mrtron wrote: post #83

astrodust wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarettes, while harmful, don't result in instant death. Banning cigarettes would result in the same problem banning other drugs has created. The only things that should be "banned" are those that are so intrinsically harmful they cause severe, immediate, measurable harm to both the abuser and society. There aren't many drugs that people consume that qualify for this standard since to be able to continuously abuse s…

Interesting perspective. Firstly, substances can be used without 'abuse'. Alcohol is a good example of this, you probably know many users who never abuse it. Alcohol most certainly can cause severe, immediate harm to the abuser an society. Why ban substances based on harm? Why not just enforce the rules around the actual harm? For example, enforce driving under the influence and don't ban alcohol. Is there really a n…

Managing harm, as you suggest, is the best way to handle things going forward. It also covers a lot of things beyond drugs, things that are addictive for some people like gambling.

In terms of priorities it should be avoiding harm to others, such as not driving under the influence as you suggest, and then avoiding harm to the individual, as might be the case with a chronic alcoholic.

As a note, heroin isn't as inherently harmful as it's made out to be, but, like other things, so long as it's illegal it will really only be popular with the more hard-core drug users. It was legal before, after all.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#246

Post by rdl » Fri, Jun 22, 2012, 11:50 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #134

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

The problem isn't gangs; it's gang violence. Making their crimes less stringently punished (reducing the paranoia within their ranks) as well as doing more to restrict the flow of arms from the United States (a better use of funds than incarcerating college potheads) seems a more sensible experiment to try before full legalisation. Consider the negative externalities of cocaine use (much higher than marijuana's); the…

I don't think drugs are that price sensitive -- they may even be Veblen goods.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#247

Post by rdl » Fri, Jun 22, 2012, 11:55 PM UTC

WayneDB wrote: post #204

vibrunazo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As shown in the report I linked before. Meth is a highly regulated hard drug that can be obtained legally. [1] Mexican drug cartels still traffic it, still makes tons of profit from it, thousands of people die because of it. Regulating Meth didn't stop the drug war. What exactly makes you think any other drug would be different? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Excuse me, but it's NOT legal. It's not legal to produce and it's not legal to sell or buy. Therefore, it's not being produced or sold by legitimate operations. THAT is why Mexican drug cartels still traffic it. Because it's still illegal .

Desoxyn is pharmaceutical methamphetamine. It is extremely infrequently prescribed, but technically more legal (schedule II, along with cocaine) than LSD or Marijuana (schedule I).

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#248

Post by WayneDB » Sat, Jun 23, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

koide wrote: post #241

WayneDB wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is complicit by keeping it illegal. If it were legal, it could be taxed and regulated like anything else. Most people are OK with letting others do what they want with their own body. It's certain puritanical, tyrannical, authoritarian and powerful government factions that don't allow that.

I'm not sure that by legalizing prostitution the slavery outlets would disappear.

I think it depends on the government. If the taxes or regulatory fees on legal prostitution are too high, it can create a black market similar to that of tobacco or pharmaceutical drugs.