How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#201

Post by DanBC » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 12:22 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #98

blazingice wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you're being downvoted, so I'll provide a reason. Alcohol is legal. The gangs that formed around producing, smuggling, and selling alcohol (e.g. Capone) are gone. The hope is that once other drugs are legal, the same thing happens to their producers.

Of note, since I was curious as to the answer myself and just found out, there are still 'gangs' (though less the urban variety we're used to seeing) based around moonshining. That prompted me to ask "why is moonshining illegal", and the best (wrong) answer I could come up with was for production and delivery to dry counties. Turns out, it's just a matter of taxation. Moonshiners are welcome to go legit, but they the…

There's still a small safety element. Sometime moonshiners produce toxic alcohol, or they contaminate their product with things that are toxic.

I agree that the main element is taxation.

Very many cigarettes sold in England are smuggled in from EU because of tax. But now people are counterfeiting so some cigs are both smuggled and fake - the quality of some of the smuggled product is alarmingly poor. (But it's tricky to get any sensible information about this because the only people releasing information are the customs / police who want to make it seem as scary as they can.)

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#202

Post by tluyben2 » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 12:53 PM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #46

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I'm in favor of drug legalization, but it's not going to happen any time soon, and I don't think it would reduce crime even if it did It's hard enough to get pot legalized in most states - the "harder" drugs don't stand a chance. And even if they were legalized, it's not even possible for a big illegal drug operation to "go legit". All of the drug cartels will still have long histories of violence, piles of cash, boa…

Yes, they will pivot. But if you legalize pot (easy income) and some harddrugs, there is not much to pivot to. The market will be too small to sustain. I mean ; if cocaine/heroine is legal, other drug users would swarm to that as it will be cheap (it is cheap to make anyway), so what do you pivot to?

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#203

Post by Willy_Wonka » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 1:09 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

No crime, barring [b]child slavery[/b].

http://vision.ucsd.edu/~kbranson/stopchocolateslavery/ataste...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_cocoa_production

Top comment, and many comments totally oblivious to the realities of life. Not surprising for HN, sadly. Keep those libertarian blinkers on boys!

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#204

Post by WayneDB » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:23 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #109

guelo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am saying cocaine should be legalized. People that want the drug today are able to obtain it anyway. We could put all kinds of restrictions on its sale and use, as long as it is easier to obtain legally than underground it would prevent the formation of wealthy criminal gangs.

As shown in the report I linked before. Meth is a highly regulated hard drug that can be obtained legally. [1] Mexican drug cartels still traffic it, still makes tons of profit from it, thousands of people die because of it. Regulating Meth didn't stop the drug war. What exactly makes you think any other drug would be different? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Excuse me, but it's NOT legal. It's not legal to produce and it's not legal to sell or buy. Therefore, it's not being produced or sold by legitimate operations. THAT is why Mexican drug cartels still traffic it. Because it's still illegal.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#205

Post by WayneDB » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:26 PM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #45

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

They make most of their money from cocaine and methamphetamine (which can be legally acquired, but that didn't stop traffic). 90% of all cocaine in the US come from mexico. [1] Do you mean cocaine should be legalized? Alcohol is a bad analogy to legalizing cocaine, you should probably be comparing to the Opium Wars instead, which didn't really end well. [2] [1] http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34215.pdf [2] http://en…

Methamphetamine is still illegal. That is why the cartels still traffic in it. There is no legitimate corporation to supply it and there won't be unless it's legal.

Alcohol sales are in the billions, why aren't the cartels making money from that? Because legitimate corporations are there to supply it already. (You can also produce your own alcohol at home, but most people don't.)

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#206

Post by WayneDB » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:37 PM UTC

koide wrote: post #197

adventureful wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no organized slavery without complicit governments.

Bah, there is plenty of slavery without complicit governments. Typical example: Criminals lure naive poor country girls with prospects of lots of money and a job elsewhere. As soon as they arrive to the destination country, they are held captive (they steal everything they own, and use violence) and then used as prostitutes. I fail to see government help in this scheme.

"The government" is absolutely complicit in that crime because they turn a blind eye to it.

Do you think that the cops don't know about Backpage or other prostitution outlets? Do you think that law enforcement is impervious to corruption?

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#207

Post by WayneDB » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:42 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #150

Why does government follow policies that make drugs so incredibly profitable?

The market for illicit drugs rivals that of oil.

Factions in our government and governments around the world can make money secretly from it.

Powerful people also see the value of playing both sides. They profit by producing it and they also profit by owning stock in many private prison corporations here in the USA where we have the highest percentage of non-violent prisoners.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#208

Post by Symmetry » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:53 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #103

debacle wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't cocaine legalized? Honest question - I've never done it nor have a I done a ton of research.

Because there's always the risk that someone will try it out of curiosity. And since it's a highly addictive drug you might end up causing more problems than you intend to solve.

I think you might have an exaggerated idea of how addictive illegal drugs tend to be compared to alcohol and tobacco. Heroin and Meth actually are more addictive[1] than legal drugs, but not magically so. Still, banning just those two drugs would be a coherent policy, unlike our current laws that also ban Cocaine, Marijuana, normal Amphetamines, LSD, etc.

[1]http://www.americanscientist.org/libraries/documents/2006451...

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#209

Post by Symmetry » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:58 PM UTC

_juof wrote: post #110

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I think we should do even more: develop new drugs(and processes) with less side effects. Drugs(and processes) that let you escape reality when you want, but still enable you to manage life reasonably well and be relatively healthy. It's clear that the need or desire to escape reality won't change anytime soon. Instead of ignoring and fighting this reality, we should try to find constructive solutions.

I think that merely by using objective scales to determine what to ban, like this[1], we would accomplish the same thing. We already have safe opioids and amphetamines from medical research. If those were legal over the counter but Heroin and Meth weren't I expect more people would use them instead.

[1]http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/28

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#210

Post by ollybee » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 3:04 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #192

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

Do you really think these people are just going to go away? Ironically, I'd imagine the cartels would be for keeping it illegal - it's their market!

not would be. I'm certain they are lobbying hard on any potential policy change that would affect them. What multi Billion dollar industry does not do this?