Live data from Hacker News

Apple vs. the "Free Market"

pluralistic.net

151–160 of 169 posts

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#151

> Tumblr still remains heavily moderated and heavily censored. Why? Because Apple kept kicking Tumblr out of the App Store on the basis that it contained sexual material, and without Apple users, Tumblr was dead in the water > Apple claims this is merely a matter of "editorial standards," no different from a bookstore deciding not to shelve pornography. The difference is that in this case, Apple can block you from pa…

You do not. This has been established for quite some time. You’re not forced to purchase Apple. If you like Apple, you know you’re getting the ecosystem that comes with it. Honestly the App Store is already garbage with the heavy amount of moderation it has. I can’t imagine what a cesspool it would be without that oversight. Admittedly, I’m a fan of this approach. I like it. If I didn’t, I just wouldn’t buy Apple pro…

> You do not [own your device]. You’re not forced to purchase Apple.

Holy oxymoron, Sherlock. You "purchase" something you don't own !? That's called a grift, you're getting grifted.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, this "need" for big platforms is entirely a matter of faith. It's like your "need" for supernatural bed-time stories that explain human suffering and make you feel cozy; they're just tall tales. You're taking this practice entirely on their word, your "proof" that this system works is a backwards understanding of determinism. The only realistic, grounded worldview is to conclude that we don't need fairyta…

The need comes from a set of pragmatic concerns, current reality, and the way human systems behave. What’s the concrete proposal here? There ain’t much in the Debian repos, for example, that’s useful to me for anything but tinkering, as far as things that make my everyday life better and easier. I’d have to bring in closed-source software and engage with a bunch of megacorps to make an open-ecosystem device do anythi…

> I’d have to bring in closed-source software and engage with a bunch of megacorps to make an open-ecosystem device do anything I care to do beyond playing with it. How is that an improvement?

Benefit of choice? Currently you rely on iCloud, I assume. iCloud is about as "trust me, bro" as you can get in the cloud storage industry; blatantly backdoored, expensive beyond understanding, and integrated too deeply to replace entirely. On other platforms you're not forced down just one avenue of convenience, you get to exercise your choice as a consumer between different solutions, or even roll your own. The express advantage is that you are enabled to not be helpless when a corporation makes mindbogglingly dumb decisions on your behalf as a user.

It's not trite or pedantic to point out your hypocrisy here. Supporting a company you think "sucks" is a terrible example to set for the rest of your social circle. I used to be that way about Google - might as well use their products since everything else is borderline garbage, right? But it isn't right, and supporting their business is actively making the world a worse place. You're welcome to suffer through whichever corporate woodchipper you think is less painful, but I can tell you firsthand the only thing I miss from MacOS and Windows are the built-in ads. If the dark patterns get any darker, I doubt most users will want to keep using their preinstalled OSes in the first place.

With regards to your wife/dad/family/whoever, "so what" indeed. If I replaced my dad's Android phone with LineageOS I legitimately don't think he would ever know as long as his YouTube app worked. Is it really that hard to imagine the people that suffer through Windows 11 slogging through Debian and Fedora instead? It's not a problem for Steam Deck owners, and for the average Google Sheets-bound employee it's probably an even easier switch. How am I expected to commiserate with people that, by your insinuation, don't care?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#154
post #42

> Every artist, performer and creator on Patreon is about to get screwed out of 30% of their gross revenue, which will be diverted to Apple Stopped reading after the first sentence as this just isn't true. First of all this only affects users who subscribe via the iOS/iPadOS app. Secondly Patreon creators have the option to have the prices for those Apps adjusted so that they receive the same amount of money and Appl…

I thought, (although the rules might have changed), that Apple explicitly forbids having different prices between your website and the app, and will kick you out of the store if it finds you doing this?

According to this article Spotify was charging 30% more on iOS all the way back until 2016 with multiple other prominent examples still existing today, so I don't think that this is true or at least hasn't been true since at least 8 years: https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/07/08/heres-why-...

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is there’s no choice. There’s Apple, Google, Samsung and there is utter trash. You just can not buy a good phone that you can fully own. You can’t even buy a mediocre phone you fully own.

So now we’re going to regulate how “good” phones have to be? That’s silly. There are 100s of different phones across at least 5 different major manufacturers. The argument of no choice is not based in reality.

I think you’re onto something. We do regulate cars, for example. Why not phones? Especially since it’s virtually impossible to live without a phone now.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#156

It seems like Apple needs to be split up into separate Services, Devices, and Marketplace companies.

providing an OS with your computer is pretty much a thing since operating systems (or supervisory programs) have been a thing.

like the business model predates the personal computer by at least 25 years or so.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine and dandy until half the software I want and/or need to run requires a root kit or otherwise dangerous access and the alternative is “don’t get to do that thing” where “that thing” may include stuff like communicating with clients or a job interview or whatever. Short of legislation (please! Please just outlaw shitty behavior like this!) you need a platform too big to ignore that prohibits the worst behavior, or…

Problem is, this "need" for big platforms is entirely a matter of faith. It's like your "need" for supernatural bed-time stories that explain human suffering and make you feel cozy; they're just tall tales. You're taking this practice entirely on their word, your "proof" that this system works is a backwards understanding of determinism. The only realistic, grounded worldview is to conclude that we don't need fairyta…

> Problem is, this "need" for big platforms is entirely a matter of faith. It's like your "need" for supernatural bed-time stories that explain human suffering and make you feel cozy; they're just tall tales. You're taking this practice entirely on their word, your "proof" that this system works is a backwards understanding of determinism. The only realistic, grounded worldview is to conclude that we don't need fairytales, and that we repeat them as an axiomatic comfort and not a truth.

Oh, so, how is it going with getting hdmi 2.1 support upstreamed into the kernel tree these days?

the “fairy tale” seems real and the needs seem genuine. You are being rude and dismissive and reductive.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#158

General computing devices like smartphones should allow users to install whatever they want without any cost or restrictions.

That's a good distinction. It doesn't bother me that I can't run arbitrary code on my Xbox, it does a specific function well and I don't need or expect more from it. But with a phone or computer it would never be acceptable to need permission to run given code or be forced to go through a platform middleman.

Well, other people feel the same way about their phones.

The line you are drawing is arbitrary and personal and other people can choose to draw it in different places. Maybe a phone is something they want to just work, let them do their banking apps in a secure ecosystem, while they would love to plug in a mouse+KB and do some spreadsheets or run Linux on their Xbox.

Try to maintain some level of theory of mind here.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#159

Apple exists within the same free market as it’ customers and competitors. The high customer satisfaction is the lock-in. High customer satisfaction can easily explain the success. The idea that lock-in breeds high customer satisfaction needs to be proven to me. Considering Microsoft’s dominance was cheered on by the Microsoft ecosystem and derided in customer satisfaction is noteworthy to me. Apple has high customer…

If you're right, what's stopping Apple from providing the same service while also granting fair access to third-parties? If Apple's main product differentiation is customer satisfaction, then in-theory they won't suffer as much from exposure to competition. As we've seen with the App Store on MacOS and AppleTV though, Apple cannot rely on just their premium profile to push a service. If they don't force people throug…

Why should Apple do work that isn't part of their business?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#160
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer satisfaction is high and there are other platforms with lower bars. The high bar is the product differentiation that Apple is using.

The phones do lots of things, and a lot of them well, so overall satisfaction doesn't mean that App Store pricing is satisfactory, nor fair. Apple forbids developers from itemizing pricing and telling users how much Apple takes, interfering with informed consumer choice. The cut is well known on HN, but I'm not sure that most users are fully aware that they're overpaying 10x on transaction fees, and the major consequ…

We all know what Apple's take is. People complain about it all the time. The perforative terms you use to describe customers you can't seem to attain are related.

If you describe your desired customer as a cult than you may hold them in too much disdain to achieve a quality product.

Demonizing Apple does not improve product quality in anyway.

Post reply on HN