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Apple vs. the "Free Market"

pluralistic.net

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Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#111

Post by mantas »

rchaud wrote: post #81
areoform wrote: post #39

> Tumblr still remains heavily moderated and heavily censored. Why? Because Apple kept kicking Tumblr out of the App Store on the basis that it contained sexual material, and without Apple users, Tumblr was dead in the water > Apple claims this is merely a matter of "editorial standards," no different from a bookstore deciding not to shelve pornography. The difference is that in this case, Apple can block you from pa…

While the examples are all valid, the restrictions don't apply on mobile Safari. Why do corporations and devs continue to accept a share cropper role by paying Apple to host native apps? FirefoxOS had the right idea, make the browser the principal gateway for applications. It was a decade ahead of its time, but the mobile web is now at a level where native apps aren't needed for the most part.

Even Apple had the right idea in the beginning…

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#112

Post by Pfhortune »

api wrote: post #77
brigadier132 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm like you and my primary device is my laptop. That being said: For the vast majority of people, their phone is their primary computing device.

These people are generally not technically knowledgeable at all. If you opened up the phone so it could run any software, all of them would instantly become infested with malware that would massively invade everyone's privacy and probably steal their credit cards and scam them. I grew up with the open Internet starting in the 1990s. I feel like a lot of people haven't wrapped their heads around just how hostile and r…

> If you opened up the phone so it could run any software, all of them would instantly become infested with malware that would massively invade everyone's privacy and probably steal their credit cards and scam them.

That's extremely hyperbolic. Not every Android phone got infested immediately with malware, despite shipping out of the box with the ability to sideload apps. I don't think the platform would have survived if that were the case.

> The Internet today is a "dark forest." Any platform made for technically unsophisticated people must be locked down like military hardware for operation in a theater of war.

That's quite a bleak outlook. One seemingly founded in fear without any faith in free software and the communities around it.

Sure, a person needs to learn some caution in installing and running software, but there aren't monsters around every single corner. There are communities that do a lot of work, without expectation of compensation, to provide safe, trustworthy software.

The internet is _not_ a dark forest. It is a place with people of many stripes and intentions. Some are dangerous, but shooting first and asking questions later is _not_ the way to navigate this wondrous thing humanity has built.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#113

Post by katzinsky »

vundercind wrote: post #110
katzinsky wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a problem on Linux because instead of force you have a small group of maintainers who the users are able to outsource the decision making to. There are other ways to do this which work much much better and don't constrain the user's freedom.

Fine and dandy until half the software I want and/or need to run requires a root kit or otherwise dangerous access and the alternative is “don’t get to do that thing” where “that thing” may include stuff like communicating with clients or a job interview or whatever. Short of legislation (please! Please just outlaw shitty behavior like this!) you need a platform too big to ignore that prohibits the worst behavior, or…

[flagged]

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#114

Post by pornel »

detourdog wrote: post #53

Apple exists within the same free market as it’ customers and competitors. The high customer satisfaction is the lock-in. High customer satisfaction can easily explain the success. The idea that lock-in breeds high customer satisfaction needs to be proven to me. Considering Microsoft’s dominance was cheered on by the Microsoft ecosystem and derided in customer satisfaction is noteworthy to me. Apple has high customer…

The app ecosystem is the lock-in, and creates a very high bar to entry for other players outside the Apple-Google duopoly.

Note that Google has created a dependency on proprietary Google Play Services, and owns the Play Store, so even leveraging AOSP is not sufficient to overcome the barrier to entry.

There are two established players. Apple can charge whatever they want, and Google can copy their strategy, because they know users have nowhere else to go (the number of people who will permanently switch to independent degoogled phones is too small to affect the duopolists' business)

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#115

Post by mrkramer »

adesanmi wrote: post #55
tvink wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, monopolization is not a good thing, and as long as Apple doesn't allow alternative app stores, we can talk about how the value they provide is artificially gatekeeping the devices of over a billion people from running the software they would like. There's not only business in this equation, and historically attacking tech monopolies through legislative power has been more effective than suggestion that…

But they’re not stopping me from supporting creators. I can go to Patreon.com on my iPhone right now and subscribe to any creator without Apple’s fees. If they took their app off the App Store tomorrow I will continue to be able to have all of the functionality because they have a functioning mobile website that allows me to do everything I want to do. The web is a perfectly suitable alternative here and it’s working…

>If they took their app off the App Store tomorrow I will continue to be able to have all of the functionality because they have a functioning mobile website that allows me to do everything I want to do. The web is a perfectly suitable alternative here and it’s working, so why exactly do they need to be on a store with rules they don’t agree with?

Because majority of the people expect that app exists for everything and because Patreon.com is not just a website, it is a complex web app. And a complex web app usually works better on smartphones when it is in the form of native mobile app than just a website in the internet browser.

I think PWAs are the viable future. Native apps are too much problematic when it comes to developing and managing them; taking in consideration you need to wrestle with two monopolistic behemoths like Apple and Google on top of all the technical complexity behind like I said developing and managing them.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#116

Post by luqtas »

AlexandrB wrote: post #6
Doches wrote: post #3

This article reads like an uneducated rant in so, so many ways. Apple rolling over its sleep and squashing Patreon isn't 'enshittification', it's just textbook monopoly abuse. And if you want to rail about the nuance of Apple's business practices you can at least not typo the name of two of their flagship products ("Iphone and Ipad"). > The fact that it's a felony to get your Iphone apps from anyone except Apple mean…

> you can at least not typo the name of two of their flagship products ("Iphone and Ipad") Why not? Are we all beholden to the Apple marketing department style guide?

excuse me? it's called HIG (Human Interface Guidelines)

/s

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#118

Post by lbwtaylor »

dhosek wrote: post #106
lbwtaylor wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I like it. If I didn’t, I just wouldn’t buy Apple products. I’m not sure why that’s so hard for people. Because Apple is so aggressive about lock-in that it excludes reasonable interaction between people with Apple and people without. The texting situation with pictures and videos is the most glaring example. You are not forced to purchase Apple products, except that you are.

Pictures text just fine to non-Apple users. Videos don’t go through, but that’s because of a limitation of the text protocol (and Apple is finally providing support for the extended text format that allows videos to be sent via text)¹. Claiming that iMessage should be opened up is kind of like saying that you should be forced to allow people to park their cars on your front lawn. iMessage is a non-zero-cost service t…

Why do we have interoperable email but not interoperable text? Actually we do now, thanks to regulatory action forcing Apple.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#120

Post by Pfhortune »

azinman2 wrote: post #95
tvink wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, monopolization is not a good thing, and as long as Apple doesn't allow alternative app stores, we can talk about how the value they provide is artificially gatekeeping the devices of over a billion people from running the software they would like. There's not only business in this equation, and historically attacking tech monopolies through legislative power has been more effective than suggestion that…

There are now alternative app stores in europe.

Why only Europe?
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