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An open-source flow battery kit

dualpower.supply

101–110 of 111 posts

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#101
post #100

Can this be combined with uphill water storage so you store both kinetic and chemical energy? The pump would store water uphill as it does now, but when it flows down it goes through the membrane and also generates power this way? Of course it robs some of the momentum used for the turbines but idk, maybe it’s more efficient?

Uphill water storage has little energy density, you need huge reservoir to get useful amounts of energy.

Ok, and?

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#102
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uphill water storage has little energy density, you need huge reservoir to get useful amounts of energy.

Ok, and?

And it means extracting the kinetic energy in this scenario is not worth it, you won't recoup the cost of turbine. Only advantage of placing electrolyte above the cell might be that you don't need to pump it when discharging, only when charging.

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#103
post #20

I dont know anything about flow batteries, but some quick searching leads me to believe that there are two tanks of electrolytes with pumps that pump them along a membrane and then you get power across the membrane. In this small battery kit, is the idea that the battery provides enough power to both operate all its own pumps/electronics, and then output usable power? Does anyone know how much power you'd be able to…

The cool thing with flow batteries is that you can scale the amount of power they store (kwh) by simply using bigger tanks. The power output (kw) you get out of them is determined by the size and efficiency of the anode and cathode. So, in this case both are a bit underwhelming obviously. But the main point is that you can increase the kwh by simply using bigger tanks and the kw by using multiple cells in parallel or…

What are possible dangers ? I am thinking that any potential sudden release of energy would make placement in urban areas unsafe.

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#104
post #8

Lots of software started this way: as a toy, a proof-of-concept, a learning opportunity for the programmers. I really hope that they find interested people who join their experiments, and build something awesome and open together.

Home 3d printers started as repraps that could barely print a shot glass.

True fact, I have Bre's first Roboexotica shot-glass, sitting on my junk bowl.

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#105
post #98

Wow, hi all, I am Kirk, the author of this blogpost, never thought my small ARM board home server would handle this much traffic! Currently reading through these posts, feel free to ask questions. Great to see interest. FYI, I am quitting my postdoc job in two months to work on this full-time, which should help the rate of progress, but my main source of income will stop. We hav ea small but it will only cover a few…

Hey Kirk, this is a neat project and I admire your high level of commitment! Question: What happens to the liquids once they have been used up and depleted? Is there a "recharge" procedure? If they can be reused, how many times before they become disposal waste?

Hey, thank you!

The liquids are reusable, and are charged and discharged repeatedly without needing to replace the fluids. In other words the system is closed with respect to mass, only electrical energy (and minor amounts of thermal) are transferred in and out, reversibly. Flow batteries are similar to so-called reversible or regenerative fuel cells for this reason.

The answer to how long it lasts depends on many factors, and we hope to provide a clearer picture of that in our work.

In a well-designed system, they can last extremely long in comparison to, say, lithium-ion batteries. This is because flow batteries have different degradation pathways that are less severe and, if present, can usually be overcome through other solutions (e.g. electrolyte rebalancing, see ESS's "proton pump").

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#106
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every other year, (solar-)electric cars scratch-built by high school students drive on public roads from Texas to (usually) California. This is considered a reasonable level of challenge, and something which insurers will cover (entrants are required to have vehicle liability insurance). https://www.solarcarchallenge.org/challenge/about.shtml https://www.solarcarchallenge.org/challenge/docs/rules2023.p...

And you would daily drive one of those? You would be ok getting into an accident with one the same as you would get in an accident driving a civic? Or maybe those are just learning vehicles meant to teach, and not meant to be car replacements? Just like this flow battery project? Ironically your post validates my whole point: This is a student project at best, and likely worthless as a "democratization of energy stor…

I take your criticism, but as for your comment that it's "a student project at best"... we do have PhDs (mine in flow batteries !) and manage this project in our spare time, at our homes...

Our small team is fully qualified to work at any flow battery company. Just give us some time and let us work on it full-time for a bit (which will happen soon). The linked post on top was a blogpost I cranked out in a few minutes one night, not something I ever expected to be on HN.

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#107
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I would find it useful for applications where there needs to be little to no self-discharge and fire safety - like a remote shed with some kind of sensor.

You still need something to power the pumps. And we already have long term low power batteries. And solar + battery has filled this role for decades.

The pumping cost constitutes a 1-2% total penalty on round-trip energy efficiency for a well-designed flow battery.

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#108

Wow, hi all, I am Kirk, the author of this blogpost, never thought my small ARM board home server would handle this much traffic! Currently reading through these posts, feel free to ask questions. Great to see interest. FYI, I am quitting my postdoc job in two months to work on this full-time, which should help the rate of progress, but my main source of income will stop. We hav ea small but it will only cover a few…

My brother has a farm and lots of solar, but no buffer. Do you think it realistic to convert a old, unused concrete walled and floored cleaned cow cesspit to liquid battery storage by dividing it? Or is classic modular containerstorage better?

Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#109

Wow, hi all, I am Kirk, the author of this blogpost, never thought my small ARM board home server would handle this much traffic! Currently reading through these posts, feel free to ask questions. Great to see interest. FYI, I am quitting my postdoc job in two months to work on this full-time, which should help the rate of progress, but my main source of income will stop. We hav ea small but it will only cover a few…

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Re: An open-source flow battery kit

#110
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where in the blog? the blog is listed in the first paragraph of the linked article: https://chemisting.com/2024/03/15/an-open-source-diy-flow-ba...

if by 'the blog' you (or you and kennyblanken) mean https://chemisting.com/ , which post do you mean? the post you link to in that blog doesn't say anything about coulombic efficiency or inkjet paper, and there are four years of posts in the blog

https://www.amazon.com/Kodak-photo-paper-matte-count/dp/B0B5... according to the link.
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