51–60 of 111 posts
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The amount of electrolyte doesn't scale the available power though, only the available energy.
Energy storage is the problem that needs a solution, e.g., storage from summer to winter.
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There are two key details you are missing: 1) Its scalable to dishwasher size, ( enough to power a tiny house ) 2) If you shot it with a bullet, it would just leak salt water. That is all. Lithium Ion will explode: Now here is the quiz: If you have a cell phone that is inflating, do you A) Dunk it in water? or B) Toss it in a full document safe? or c) Quickly empty your document safe, and toss it in? If a flow batter…
… if you are looking to scale this to a couple of hundred megawatts, just stop reading and thinking about this now I thought that was one huge appeal of flow batteries is that you can basically infinitely scale them. China has a 100MW installation (potentially more since this 2022 report) https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/09/29/china-connects-worlds...
The Chinese company didn't steal this technology. It was given to them — by the U.S. Department of Energy. First in 2017, as part of a sublicense, and later, in 2021, as part of a license transfer."
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1114964240/new-battery-techno...
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The author actually talks about ESS in a comment to the linked blog post from the article. Apparently their battery generates a ton of H_2 that needs to be managed. That could easily be the sort of thing that only is possible/realistic at large scales, thus eliminating sizing the battery down indirectly. https://chemisting.com/2024/03/15/an-open-source-diy-flow-ba...
you can just vent h2 to the atmosphere
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>Also, the internal resistance depends entirely on how many cells you have. Right, from the one study I can find, commercial flow batteries have about 10-20x the internal resistance of a lithium ion battery, so the match the power and energy capabilities of a single li-ion cell you would need a liter of electrolyte and about 30 (!) cells (3 for voltage x 10 for power). And that is for a commercial quality flow batter…
A flow battery isn't going to burst into extremely high temperature flames in a self-sustaining not easily extinguishable fire that also spews toxic fumes in mass quantities. I'll take a basement (or garage) with a flow battery over lithium ion ANY day of the week if I want battery backup for my house.
At some point I expect we will look back at the era when we used really flammable electrolytes and laugh about how wild that was. I bet we are not that far from it being just a memory.
I cannot see how this is useful outside of being a fun student learning program. From the data it appears a battery with 1L of electrolyte provides about 18Wh of energy. Mind you this is at ~1.2V, which isn't especially useful without a boost converter. With a boost converter though you would need a low internal impedance from the battery, which I highly doubt is any good with a paper membrane (from what I understand…
Not a battery expert, but this seems the right ballpark for useful batteries. Back of envelope stuff: 1liter for 18Wh. 1k liter 18KWh (this is an average hot tub). 10k litre for 180Kwh. This is a ~$1000 farming tank. ~100KWh lithium batteries are around the $20-30k. (Used Tesla pack for reference) Quick google shows flow electrolyte in the neighbourhood of $100 per KWh. Or $10k for a ~100KWh battery. All this is noth…
Nitpick: that seems high, and probably very specific to high capacity Model S packs. A brand new 75kWh Tesla pack for a Model 3 is around $10K installed these days.
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These guys in the US make a 500kwh version, that can run at 75kw of discharge power across 3 phases, and its a single shipping container: https://essinc.com/energy-warehouse/ It doesn't seem like it would take up that much space to have 200 shipping containers sitting somewhere, i'm pretty sure the Home Depot distrubution center in our town already is close to that in their parking lot (yes, you would want them not o…
That’s incredible. I wonder what are the costs relative to a grid scale battery of equivalent size. I only wish they made one that were barrel sized and fit for consumers. Worst case, you have a leak vs a home battery fire.
Battery fires are an EV (and then, only certain models) and laptop/phone thing. Only a few home batteries use the really flammable electrolytes (mostly Tesla Powerwalls, I'd bet). Most people are using LFP for home, which is less expensive and doesn't have the fire problem.
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you can just vent h2 to the atmosphere
Your local fire department will want to very closely inspect your explosive materials handling and safety procedures. Think about what big banks of lead-acid batteries have to do, and google the pictures of battery rooms with their roof blown to bits.
but that's what happens when you don't vent the hydrogen to the atmosphere
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It's in the blog. The author mentions finding that matte inkjet paper worked fairly well. There are much cheaper membranes; ESS for example uses a membrane that is used by lithium ion batteries (I think) and thus is commonly available and very inexpensive.
where in the blog?
the blog is listed in the first paragraph of the linked article: https://chemisting.com/2024/03/15/an-open-source-diy-flow-ba...
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where in the blog?
> where in the blog? the blog is listed in the first paragraph of the linked article: https://chemisting.com/2024/03/15/an-open-source-diy-flow-ba...
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Your local fire department will want to very closely inspect your explosive materials handling and safety procedures. Think about what big banks of lead-acid batteries have to do, and google the pictures of battery rooms with their roof blown to bits.
i'm familiar with the destructive power and unpredictable nature of hydrogen detonations, yes ;) but that's what happens when you don't vent the hydrogen to the atmosphere