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Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

troyhunt.com

121–130 of 472 posts

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#121
post #99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then you're up against the wall of digital verification. I know there's a fuck load of situations where the banks are 100% screwing the customer to their benefit, but there's a legit conversation about people who give out their passwords, or claim they did, when money gets wiped out. If you meet all the requirements to identify yourself to the bank, at what point does the bank have to say "this is that person, a…

Banks should get insurance to cover their negligence. They weren't careful.

See how credit cards work (at least where I have lived). Someone fraudulently cloned my card after a petrol station visit and I got it fixed as soon as I noticed the weird transactions. The bank or VISA footed that cost. UK has statutory law on this. Probably because of how CCs used to work with that carbon copy crap.

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#122

Ahh, cool, pour the corpus through GPTs and start tweeting Congressional rep personal info at them until they pass a law to outlaw data brokers (in keeping with historical precedent [1] [2]). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act [2] https://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/dodging-the-thought-poli...

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Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video doesn't quite get into the problem of identity theft, which is when someone uses your stolen creds to claim they are you, and then go on a shopping spree which may include buying a car under your name. You shouldn't be liable for debts incurred after having your identity stolen but proving that is a lot of work.

I never really understood why the onus is on any person to prove they didn’t do something. Shouldn’t the shaggy defence be sufficient? e.g. You get hauled into court for a lawsuit demanding the loan repayment, for a loan someone else used your name to get? - It wasn’t me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense

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Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#125
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks should get insurance to cover their negligence. They weren't careful.

See how credit cards work (at least where I have lived). Someone fraudulently cloned my card after a petrol station visit and I got it fixed as soon as I noticed the weird transactions. The bank or VISA footed that cost. UK has statutory law on this. Probably because of how CCs used to work with that carbon copy crap.

In the US merchants are the ones footing that cost, either in merchant fees (which they then pass on to the Customer in the form of higher prices) or directly (by the credit card company refusing to pay the merchant).

It might be different now, but in the late 90s I sold some laptops to a buyer using a stolen credit card. The cardholders had no fraud liability but my company ended-up having to eat the cost of the stolen laptops. The credit card company simply didn't pay the amount of the fraud in their settlement with us.

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#126

I am just dreading the day when a near simultaneous cyberattack on a high number of(more vulnerable like middle-lower income individuals) start in a DDoS fashion: 1. Credit histories will be(unlocked) used to file multiple credit applications and tax credits will be applied for. 2. Multiple Cell phones will be hijacked through Sim Hijacking or other zeroday attacks to make it very difficult to get back in. 3. A perso…

Luckily, there aren't multiple hostile nation states capable of this. /s

All that I can see preventing it is deniability and eco-political risk.

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video doesn't quite get into the problem of identity theft, which is when someone uses your stolen creds to claim they are you, and then go on a shopping spree which may include buying a car under your name. You shouldn't be liable for debts incurred after having your identity stolen but proving that is a lot of work.

I never really understood why the onus is on any person to prove they didn’t do something. Shouldn’t the shaggy defence be sufficient? e.g. You get hauled into court for a lawsuit demanding the loan repayment, for a loan someone else used your name to get? - It wasn’t me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense

When someone named adamomada comes to the bank for a loan, the presumption is that adamomada will repay the loan.

If they knew it wasn't you, they wouldn't have written the loan in the first place. They're asking you to repay it because they really do think it was you.

If "it wasn't me" was all anyone had to do to get out of paying a loan, many people would do it.

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these data brokers hold wildly inaccurate information.

You too can be a data broker! for (i = 0; i Does anyone really really care if the name is accurate if the SSN is present? More than half of the SSNs in the above dataset are valid.

In fact there are far fewer valid Socials. They follow a system where guessing a number of digits is fairly determined based on year and state of birth

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#129
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For argument sake, instead of outlawing data brokers wouldn’t it be better to design a better ID system that renders one’s name, dob, and SSN as harmless information? I don’t know what that would look like but if I had congresses attention I’d like them to fix the problem rather than playing whack-a-mole with banning data sources. I don’t think any actual solutions come from that.

In many countries in Europe, your ID card contains a chip with a cryptographic key, much like chip&pin on a debit or credit card. Those bits of information are worthless when you need to create a cryptographic signature with your ID card to do almost anything important. If the card is lost or stolen they can just remove your old one from the keyserver. It's literally just public key crypto. Identity theft is rampant…

> Those bits of information are worthless when you need to create a cryptographic signature with your ID card to do almost anything important.

That depends on the type of attack you're protecting against. It might prevent an attacker from filing your taxes for you, but many companies are still going to use this kind of information as primary key. But it's not going to stop an attacker from pretending to be a bank employee, calling a genuine bank employee via a secret internal-only number, and claiming they've got Mr. Doe in their branch trying to do a critical transaction but their phone broke so they can't use the bank app. Yeah, the Mr. Doe living at 987 Main Street, that one. See, you even verified their ID, and it has a SSN of 123456 printed on it - just compare that to our customer database to make sure it's legit!

It also opens up a whole new type of attack. The problem with those smart cards is that there isn't really a way for the user to know what operation is actually happening. You're using a regular PC or smartphone to interface between the smart card and whatever entity you're trying to communicate with. But that could just as well be a phishing website pretending to be that entity, or malware doing a MitM. Or even just a random website pretending to need a signature for "age verification" when it's actually applying for a loan behind the scenes.

There's no "Do you really want to sign over your house to XYZ?" message on the card itself. And suddenly the government/bank/whatever is getting a request with a cryptographic signature which can obviously only be made by you - why would they have to double-check it if it cannot possible be fraudulent?

I agree that we should be moving to more secure systems, but those ID smart cards aren't a one-size-fits-all solution.

Re: Inside the "3 billion people" national public data breach

#130

I am just dreading the day when a near simultaneous cyberattack on a high number of(more vulnerable like middle-lower income individuals) start in a DDoS fashion: 1. Credit histories will be(unlocked) used to file multiple credit applications and tax credits will be applied for. 2. Multiple Cell phones will be hijacked through Sim Hijacking or other zeroday attacks to make it very difficult to get back in. 3. A perso…

I wonder how many governments have this capability right now? I would guess at least three.
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