Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#391

Post by mcguire »

pwdiscflatmajor wrote: post #354
saratogacx wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model is the "old school" model for software sales. The first version you sell to a user at full price and offer a discount for upgrading (something like 40% off). It lets the customer pick when they feel the value prop is worth the cost and lets you offer a loyalty incentive to the user. Right now the choice is "keep paying for it to keep working" or "fully price for every upgrade".

FL Studio (fka FruityLoops) is an outstanding exponent of this old method (but once, free upgrades for life)

Free upgrades are problematic themselves: once you've saturated your market (a good place to be, right?) you no longer have income to provide upgrades.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#392

Post by AndyKelley »

I think we should strive for making all "middle-man" platforms non-profits. App stores should be run by non-profits. Food delivery platforms should be non-profits. Rideshare platforms should be non-profits. I think it's the only way to defend against the natural process of enshittification that occurs when the platform itself is has a conflict of interest from the two parties that it connects.

That goes for Patreon itself by the way - why in the world is a platform for connecting creators to fans itself a for-profit entity? A non-profit would be able to offer significantly less transaction fees - for example, Every.org. There's also the question of what Patreon's "exit strategy" will be...

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#394

Post by [deleted] »

dannyobrien wrote: post #248
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

[deleted]

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#395

Post by kmeisthax »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #291
kmeisthax wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close. They already get a % whenever you use Apple Pay. In fact, it's part of why the EU demanded Apple provide NFC APIs to allow third-party replacements of the built-in Wallet app.

https://paymentdepot.com/blog/apple-pay-fees-for-merchants/ >Q: What fees does Apple charge merchants for using Apple Pay? >Apple does not charge merchants any fees for accepting Apple Pay payments. However, merchants may still be subject to fees from their payment processor or bank. Remember, credit cards and debit cards are behind each Apple customer purchase. >Apple Pay fees are generally lower than traditional cr…

Ok, so that sounds like Apple muscled banks out of their swipe fees.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#396

Post by mcguire »

omoikane wrote: post #235
heavyset_go wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google forces apps on the Play Store to use Google's payment methods and give them a 15% to 30% cut of revenue, as well. You can sideload, but the duopoly exists and they're shaking 99.9% of users down for every dime they can get out of them.

My understanding is that Patreon does not use Google's payment system and isn't subject to a cut of the revenue. This is why the article says "Your prices on the web and the Android app will remain completely unaffected".

You are aware that you cannot purchase ebooks through the Amazon apps on Android, right?

What you say may be true today, but tomorrow is unknown territory as far as these sorts of agreements go.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#397

Post by reddalo »

kmeisthax wrote: post #361
dannyobrien wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

From the article: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon continue to use unsupported billing models or disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. In other words, every Patreon creator has to be billable through iOS App Store or you get kicked off. Someone should get the FTC or EU involved. This is beyond the pale.

> Someone should get the FTC or EU involved.

I agree, but I also wonder why Patreon needs an iOS app.

It's 2024, you don't need an app for everything. See OnlyFans, they're doing fine even without being able to access the proprietary stores.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#398

Post by underlipton »

neilv wrote: post #125

Since at least the 1980s, IT had the concepts of "open systems" and "interoperation", to support market competition and innovation. And we later did things like the Web and other open standards. Then Apple comes along, and uses its market position as a hardware and OS vendor, to make a nonstandard software download thing that could've been a Web site. In parallel, Apple also made open-standards Web apps unattractive…

>What I don't understand is why regulators haven't smacked the snot out of the Apple app store, with finality.

I imagine that part of it is that Apple's stock backstops a lot of activity in the financial markets. No one wants to kill the golden goose to protect "a bunch of Millennial and Zoomer phone addicts"; you have to remember, we're the cows everyone else is happy to milk dry for their own needs.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#399

Post by bangaladore »

popcalc wrote: post #382
bangaladore wrote: post #331

Let's not forget that if Apple created something called "Apple Creators", they would instantly gain 100% of the market share because there would be no fee (assuming feature parity) This forcing apps to use your payment platform through extortion is anti-competitive. Full stop.

>would be no fee Because fraud doesn't exist?

Why would Apple charge itself a platform fee? They are the platform.

Unless you are talking about CC fees, which are like 2% compared to the 30% that Apple is extorting you for.

Can you explain your comment?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#400

Post by mcguire »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #301
kmeisthax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store model was specifically implemented and approved by Steve Jobs. There's old internal e-mails from him complaining about Amazon's reader app making it too easy to buy books without paying the (increasingly literal) Apple Tax. In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit…

…him complaining about Amazon's reader app making it too easy to buy books without paying the (increasingly literal) Apple Tax. Heh. Attempting to buy a book from the Kindle app was how I first became aware of these policies. Was fruitlessly searching for a buy button, but could not find anything. Did a web search to figure out why I was an idiot who could not spend my money. Only to discover that I was purposely get…

At least the Android app tells you that you cannot buy ebooks in it. :-)
Post reply on HN