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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#371

Post by kmeisthax »

ReptileMan wrote: post #122
kmeisthax wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store model was specifically implemented and approved by Steve Jobs. There's old internal e-mails from him complaining about Amazon's reader app making it too easy to buy books without paying the (increasingly literal) Apple Tax. In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit…

>In fact, the reason why antitrust lawsuits seem to never stick to Apple is because all the mens rea was stored in the mind of a guy who tried to cure his pancreatic cancer with fruit juice[0] You don't need antitrust. Just consumer rights.

The bigger we let companies get, the bigger the government has to get in order to enforce the law. At some point (which we've already passed) both governments and corporations are so big and all-controlling that they act as one, and there is no "keeping them honest". Consumer rights go out the window because nobody is willing to enforce them when being a good government employee precludes becoming a corporate employee later on.

Antitrust is a necessary precondition for consumer rights.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#372

Post by sunaookami »

_han wrote: post #188

This is the most shocking part to me: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon […] disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. Absolutely astounding that removing transactions from the platform could result in being removed.

WordPress had the same problem: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-says-wordpress-doesnt...

They had to remove payments completely so that it's a "free standalone app".

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#373

Post by __loam »

sersi wrote: post #200

I dislike Patreon because they keep making their UI worse over time but that said, I'm furious at apple for this. I like Patreon to allow creators to do per-creation schedule and I hate that Apple has enough power to impact me despite being an Android user (specifically because of these kind of behaviors). So, to people who say that with only 27% of global marketshare there's no case for an antitrust lawsuit, well if…

DoJ agrees with you lol.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#374

Post by genpfault »

aftbit wrote: post #295
jobigoud wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use this model as a creator and I just hope/assume that my users will use the website instead of an app. It doesn't remove the per-creation model, it just makes it absent from the iOS app.

Ah okay, that's fine then. I'll just keep using the per-creation model. I don't use Apple hardware so I won't even notice the change.

> I'll just keep using the per-creation model.

Until Patreon takes it away:

> As a result of Apple’s mandates and in order to make sure that you can continue getting new members in the iOS app, we've started a 16-month-long migration process to bring all creators onto subscription billing by November 2025, supported by a roadmap of new features and tools to make sure the billing model works for you, your community, and your business. To be clear, this means that first-of-the-month and per-creation billing models will be discontinued in November 2025.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#375

Post by api »

AlexandrB wrote: post #249
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

They've certainly encouraged subscriptions but the big driver is the drive for recurring revenue, which can be valued up to 20X what one-time revenue is valued. In some cases companies with investors are instructed to not even care about non-recurring revenue since it doesn't matter. Revenue is recurring or it doesn't exist.

Recurring revenue has always been highly valued. What changed is that the Internet and modern automated payment networks have made it so much easier to implement recurring revenue models. Now everything can be a subscription and now companies that don't have subscriptions are at a massive valuation and fund raising disadvantage. The more companies figure out how to add recurring revenue, the more companies have to figure out how to add recurring revenue.

This is why your car company, appliance company, etc. is trying to get you to subscribe to something.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#376

Post by kmeisthax »

mullingitover wrote: post #357
kmeisthax wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's legal department is also very well-paid, but they've lost both the Epic lawsuit and the DOJ lawsuit. In some markets (e.g. search) they have dramatically more market share, but 27% of phones is still high enough to have some market power. Antitrust doesn't care about the market share, it cares about actions taken to restrain competition. Government-granted monopolies (e.g. copyright law) have partial antitru…

> Antitrust doesn't care about the market share, it cares about actions taken to restrain competition. Yes, but "only when it harms both allocative efficiency and raises the prices of goods above competitive levels or diminishes their quality."[1] [1] https://law.stanford.edu/press/congress-hears-challenges-to-...

Killing per-creation billing and demanding a 30% cut that will be passed onto the consumer sounds like a pretty obvious example to me.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#378

Post by ajdude »

sureIy wrote: post #313

I don’t understand one part: why can’t a creator just decide to not appear in the app? Are they changing the donation structure for everyone regardless of their interest of the Apple platform? Why should YouTubers be bothered by this change, for example.

They said that if they offer different options for people who are not in the app, Apple threatened to remove them from the App Store.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#379

Post by talldayo »

aphantastic wrote: post #115
HDThoreaun wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the content you paid for when using a non mobile device?

I’ve happily been using Patreon for years and didn’t even know an app existed. Has the world entirely forgotten about websites?

> Has the world entirely forgotten about websites?

Perhaps, if only the segment of the population forced to use a browser that didn't support PWAs for over a decade. I can see why they would forget about websites over a long enough period of time.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#380

Post by kmeisthax »

derefr wrote: post #351
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@jayd16 - it’s been a few years since I read the Apple Developer Agreement but at that time downloading code and executing it within your app was forbidden by the agreement. A sensible security safeguard IMO.

iSH does it. Not sure how they get away with it, but the dev is around on here so maybe they can explain.

AFAIK, even the iSH developers were never given a proper explanation. iSH was actually removed a few years back[0] and then reinstated with an apology but no policy changes or clarifications.

This was before the change to allow Delta on the App Store, too.

[0] https://ish.app/blog/app-store-removal

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