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Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

theguardian.com

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Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#101

Post by lm28469 »

arethuza wrote: post #96
lm28469 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water _will_ get through your roof at some point, and it'll sit nice and tight right above your spray foam, for years, decades, and you'll never ever know about it until the problem is too big to handle. This is especially true for hack jobs on older buildings.

Whereas the traditional warning sign in older UK buildings is for you to know about a problem with your roof by having your ceiling plaster collapse when you least expect it!

Jokes aside you don't usually plaster the inside of an attic, unless it's a liveable attic, but that's far from the norm.

A lot of people spray foam in old attics as a set and forget insulation measure: https://www.stellrr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/AAF45418-...

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#102

Post by Jensson »

lm28469 wrote: post #93
CyberDildonics wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely right, a lot doesn't add up. People in this thread seem to just accept the moisture argument without thinking it through or doing research. Lots of people have spray foam and lots of people are happy with it. There is no '25% of wood deteriorating over the next couple of years'. The reason it's nonsense is that the side covered with foam (especially closed cell) is now protected by waterproof polyu…

Water _will_ get through your roof at some point, and it'll sit nice and tight right above your spray foam, for years, decades, and you'll never ever know about it until the problem is too big to handle. This is especially true for hack jobs on older buildings.

> Water _will_ get through your roof at some point

Why? It isn't like water will get through metal plates, at least not within many decades.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#103

Post by arethuza »

lm28469 wrote: post #101
arethuza wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the traditional warning sign in older UK buildings is for you to know about a problem with your roof by having your ceiling plaster collapse when you least expect it!

Jokes aside you don't usually plaster the inside of an attic, unless it's a liveable attic, but that's far from the norm. A lot of people spray foam in old attics as a set and forget insulation measure: https://www.stellrr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/AAF45418-...

I wasn't joking - I've been in two top floor flats in the UK in older buildings (central Edinburgh) that had ceiling plaster collapse due to roof problems.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#104

Post by xnx »

lm28469 wrote: post #48

Spray foam sounds good at first but it's almost always complete trash. Nasty chemicals, 0 ventilation, poor humidity management, pain in the ass to remove. It's one of these things poor people get because it's cheap upfront but in the end it'll cost you twice as much as a proper insulation system It's easy to apply and looks cool so that's good for instagram builders/remodelers, plus they'll probably be out of busine…

Really? Properly installed closed-cell spray foam seems to have a ton of benefits:

Moisture barrier: It blocks water vapor and prevents mold growth by reducing humidity levels in crawl spaces and other areas.

Structural strength: It can double the racking load of a home, making it more resistant to severe weather. Air sealing: It protects against drafts, cold spots, and uneven heating.

Longevity: It retains its R-value over time and can last for decades if installed correctly. Energy cost savings: It reduces your carbon footprint by consuming less energy.

Improved air quality: It doesn't contain harmful micro substances like fiberglass insulation.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#105

Post by lm28469 »

Jensson wrote: post #102
lm28469 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water _will_ get through your roof at some point, and it'll sit nice and tight right above your spray foam, for years, decades, and you'll never ever know about it until the problem is too big to handle. This is especially true for hack jobs on older buildings.

> Water _will_ get through your roof at some point Why? It isn't like water will get through metal plates, at least not within many decades.

Not all roofs are "metal plates", most aren't actually. Either way some roofing materials are rated for as low as 20 years, depending on the climate and how good they were installed they might fail earlier

You'll always have a failing shingle/tile here and there, unless you plan on inspecting the whole structure under the foam every year you could very well miss it for many years.

A puddle in the attic or a wet rock/sheepwool panel will be much easier to discover/fix. A small leak under 20cm of sprayed foam will be a nightmare to locate

https://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/488240/homeow...

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#106

Post by lm28469 »

xnx wrote: post #104
lm28469 wrote: post #48

Spray foam sounds good at first but it's almost always complete trash. Nasty chemicals, 0 ventilation, poor humidity management, pain in the ass to remove. It's one of these things poor people get because it's cheap upfront but in the end it'll cost you twice as much as a proper insulation system It's easy to apply and looks cool so that's good for instagram builders/remodelers, plus they'll probably be out of busine…

Really? Properly installed closed-cell spray foam seems to have a ton of benefits: Moisture barrier: It blocks water vapor and prevents mold growth by reducing humidity levels in crawl spaces and other areas. Structural strength: It can double the racking load of a home, making it more resistant to severe weather. Air sealing: It protects against drafts, cold spots, and uneven heating. Longevity: It retains its R-val…

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to

Structural strength: yeahhhh... no

Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though

Improved air quality: The petrol derivate foam that leaves a god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? rock or better sheep wool is much better in that regard

In the end of the day people do whatever they want but I'd rather build smaller and spend more on rockwool than have extra space and nasty ass foam all around my house

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#107

Post by maxerickson »

btilly wrote: post #100
maxerickson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given housing prices, it seems that the 3500 is merely (potentially) wasteful and (definitely) irritating. It isn't gonna make it impossible to sell a place.

Why are you ignoring the "further damage" bit? The issue isn't the cost of the removal. It is the unknown further liability.

I'm saying that someone looking to shift 300000 is going to go ahead and remove the unknown.

If the installation was done reasonably, they probably won't have further damage. I wasn't really meaning to ignore it, just wasn't speaking to it.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#108

Post by CyberDildonics »

lm28469 wrote: post #93
CyberDildonics wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely right, a lot doesn't add up. People in this thread seem to just accept the moisture argument without thinking it through or doing research. Lots of people have spray foam and lots of people are happy with it. There is no '25% of wood deteriorating over the next couple of years'. The reason it's nonsense is that the side covered with foam (especially closed cell) is now protected by waterproof polyu…

Water _will_ get through your roof at some point, and it'll sit nice and tight right above your spray foam, for years, decades, and you'll never ever know about it until the problem is too big to handle. This is especially true for hack jobs on older buildings.

Why would water be able to get through your roof but air not be able to get to it at the same time?

Why would water be able to get through your roof with spray foam making anything worse? Water damage means you have to replace things anyway.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#109

Post by xnx »

lm28469 wrote: post #106
xnx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Properly installed closed-cell spray foam seems to have a ton of benefits: Moisture barrier: It blocks water vapor and prevents mold growth by reducing humidity levels in crawl spaces and other areas. Structural strength: It can double the racking load of a home, making it more resistant to severe weather. Air sealing: It protects against drafts, cold spots, and uneven heating. Longevity: It retains its R-val…

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though Improved air quality: The petrol derivate foam that leaves a god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? rock or better sheep wool is much better in that regard In the end of the day pe…

> Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to

Definitely a risk with any type of improperly installed moisture barrier (like ZIP sheathing).

> Structural strength: yeahhhh... no

It would take me some time to find more formal studies, but there are a lot of videos on YouTube that demonstrate the addeded strength. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mMHJpSHKJM

> god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ?

Everything I've read indicates that any offgassing/odor is gone in 24 hours or less.

> In the end of the day people do whatever they want

Agreed. To each their own. Closed cell spray foam also works well in conjunction with rockwool.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#110

Post by CyberDildonics »

lm28469 wrote: post #106
xnx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Properly installed closed-cell spray foam seems to have a ton of benefits: Moisture barrier: It blocks water vapor and prevents mold growth by reducing humidity levels in crawl spaces and other areas. Structural strength: It can double the racking load of a home, making it more resistant to severe weather. Air sealing: It protects against drafts, cold spots, and uneven heating. Longevity: It retains its R-val…

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to Structural strength: yeahhhh... no Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though Improved air quality: The petrol derivate foam that leaves a god awful nasty smell for days/weeks and can offgas for years is good for air quality ? rock or better sheep wool is much better in that regard In the end of the day pe…

Moisture barrier: it traps the humidity in places you potentially don't want to

This is more applicable to fiberglass. How does humidity somehow get past the foam while being kept there? I never see any evidence for these claims.

Structural strength: yeahhhh... no

Foam adds rigidity to wooden structures. This is actually very commonly brought up and noticed where houses creak far less on top of the sounds proofing. Saying "yeahh.. no" is not evidence of anything.

Longevity: not more than anything else, a pain in the ass to replace though

Definitely more than fiberglass, since fiberglass can sag and flatten over time.

offgas for years is good for air quality

This is not typical and happens when it is installed poorly.

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