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Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

theguardian.com

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Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#61

Post by sbradford26 »

simfoo wrote: post #28

I'm into watching construction videos on Youtube, and since most of the content originates from the US I see lots of people using spray foam insulation without any sort of air-tight & moisture regulating membrane on the inside (behind the drywall for example). This is a disaster waiting to happen in almost all northern climates during winter (when AC/de-humidification isn't running) for the same reasons outlined in t…

It depends on what type of spray foam you use. Closed cell foam is rated to be a moisture barrier. It tends to be more expensive but is worth it to get a moisture barrier and insulation in one. In some scenarios where you need much thicker insulation to hit your desired R value they might start with closed cell for the moisture barrier and then switch to open cell since it is cheaper.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#62

Post by wodenokoto »

lostlogin wrote: post #36
eadmund wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was initially confused when I read it, but I think that ‘trader’ here must be the politically-correct word for ‘tradesman’ (someone engaged in a trade) rather than someone who trades (like a stockbroker).

Is this incorrect? Can a down-voter comment? I might learn something.

I think the meaning of trader is pretty obvious from context.

Where the downvoted is wrong is saying it is somehow a PC term.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#63

Post by bluGill »

nemo44x wrote: post #10
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can someone explain the mechanism how the foam can damage the building? I didn’t quite get it from the article.

It traps moisture which leads to mold and for wood to rot. You nearly never want to install insulation without a vapor barrier. And especially not with spray foam. People do it because it’s cheap to do. You only have to punch a small hole in the wall and spray into it. Also if you want insulate an old house consider you should install an HVAC system so that you are properly venting. Old houses self ventilate because…

> You nearly never want to install insulation without a vapor barrier. And especially not with spray foam

Closed cell foam insulation is a vapor barrier, which is where the problem comes from. You must never have two vapor barriers as any moisture that is between them cannot get out and this will cause mold and rot.

Punching a small hole in a wall and putting foam is fine so long as the foam and the existing vapor barrier are touching each other and thus form one barrier. However if there is something between the vapor barrier and the foam you have two barriers and problems.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#64

Post by [deleted] »

forty wrote: post #39

What makes it unsellable or unmoragable? I don't know how that works on the UK, but here if there is a defect in a house that requires 3300€ to fix, the house value is just estimated 3300€ less than the price without the defect (or worse case scenario, you account for the value of redoing the roof if there is a risk it's needed)

[deleted]

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#65

Post by sumtechguy »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #22
stephen_g wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very curious where this is? Sounds ridiculous, what jurisdiction wouldn’t include them as part of the house? Utterly bizarre! Also why couldn’t they afford them? Is this the US where the equivalent of a $5000 system elsewhere in the world seems to cost $25K to install for some reason? Even then, with depreciation as long as it’s a couple of years old surely the residual value isn’t that much…?

The owners of the house may not own the solar panels: there's a psuedo-scam running around where they are installed for "free" by a company that then gets a lien on the house https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/solar/solar-scams/

This is probably exactly what happened. Those bad boys are not cheap to install either. Systems running well into the 30-50k levels to be paid over '20 years'. The system I put in would have cost about 45k after 20 years if I had taken their loan. I can buy all the electricity I need and 3 of my neighbors for that. As I had the money for up front it ended up costing me 16. Even then the 'ROI' is rubbish. Still cool to get a bill that is just interconnect fees though.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#66

Post by gambiting »

pif wrote: post #60
gambiting wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK all people who do these kinds of jobs(builder, plumbers, electricians etc) are called traders, I've never heard anyone use the word "tradesman".

Could you please offer a link to an online dictionary offering this definition? Thanks in advance!

....What definition? As a Brit, I'm telling you that's what we call people in these professions, anyone who comes to work on your house is a "trader" - you can choose to believe me or not lol.

Edit: and as another commenter pointed out, it's literally the government definition of someone running their own business - "sole trader".

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#67

Post by bloak »

gambiting wrote: post #43
eadmund wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was initially confused when I read it, but I think that ‘trader’ here must be the politically-correct word for ‘tradesman’ (someone engaged in a trade) rather than someone who trades (like a stockbroker).

In the UK all people who do these kinds of jobs(builder, plumbers, electricians etc) are called traders, I've never heard anyone use the word "tradesman".

Here's an example: https://www.myworkman.co.uk/tradesmen/

The term seems to lack gender-neutrality so Wikipedia prefers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradesperson

The trouble with "trader" is that it usually means something else, namely someone who trades. A tradesperson doesn't trade; they practise a trade (= craft/profession).

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#68

Post by hprotagonist »

eadmund wrote: post #25
pif wrote: post #19

> At the root of the problem are cowboy traders who apply the foam without a full survey or appropriate expertise.

I was initially confused when I read it, but I think that ‘trader’ here must be the politically-correct word for ‘tradesman’ (someone engaged in a trade) rather than someone who trades (like a stockbroker).

the -er shortening ending is one of several in UK english. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_%22-er%22)

"tradie" is the variant i encounter more often, though.

Re: Spray-foam insulation makes homes unable to be mortgaged

#70

Post by tialaramex »

forty wrote: post #39

What makes it unsellable or unmoragable? I don't know how that works on the UK, but here if there is a defect in a house that requires 3300€ to fix, the house value is just estimated 3300€ less than the price without the defect (or worse case scenario, you account for the value of redoing the roof if there is a risk it's needed)

The mortgage issuers get to decide what risks they do or do not accept and they hate unknowns. One example that often comes up is "atypical construction". Maybe you want to buy a one-of-a-kind house that some crazy architect built for himself in 1968. He didn't use any materials that are known to be unsafe, but on the other hand nobody else had ever built a home like that and no-one did since. Mortgage issuers hate that, you might find a specialist who would be willing to offer you a mortgage, but nobody on the high street will.

It's not unsellable, there are a lot of private buyers, both investors who intend to rent it out and people with significant money looking to just buy outright. For example my mother moved long after retiring, obviously she can't get a mortgage, so she paid cash. However, if a mortgage will be hard to get this makes it significantly harder to find a buyer, especially if your ideal buyer is younger and not wealthy. This can depress prices.

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