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How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

nytimes.com

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Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#221

Post by dhughes »

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I know I'm unpopular for saying this but I doubt it would work and by that I mean people like Guzmán will always exist whether it's drugs, prostitution, stolen merchandise or whatever.

Even today tobacco, mostly cigarettes, is smuggled and it is legal, people hate the high taxes implemented to help cover healthcare costs. The majority of legal drug (tobacco, alcohol) users it seems are low income so it would make sense taxes are a large part of the purchase price.

It's the same for alcohol easy to make and I think if I remember hearing it correctly from high school teacher that (here in Canada) the cost of alcohol is 99% tax.

Then people would say tobacco, alcohol, and probably drugs too if they are legalized should not be taxed so high, it's never ending.

If I said I didn't care if someone killed themselves using drugs that sounds callous but if I said I cared and thought people should not be able to use meth or crack then I'm told to mind my own business.

And people are living shorter lives due to morbid obesity because they can't manage to eat a healthy diet what would happen if drugs are legalized? People balk at taxing unhealthy food I can't imagine adding legal crack into that mess. People in the US and Canada can't seem to regulate their vices, I foresee massive numbers of deaths if drugs are legalized.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#222

Post by cbrauchli »

dhughes wrote: post #221
guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I know I'm unpopular for saying this but I doubt it would work and by that I mean people like Guzmán will always exist whether it's drugs, prostitution, stolen merchandise or whatever. Even today tobacco, mostly cigarettes, is smuggled and it is legal, people hate the high taxes implemented to help cover healthcare costs. The majority of legal drug (tobacco, alcohol) users it seems are low income so it would make sen…

The issue is less about whether people like El Chapo will profit on drugs and more about the 50,000 people murdered due to illegal trafficking. People might smuggle cigarettes, but they don't usually murder to do so.

I also think people would be much more willing to tax drugs than food. The reason food is not taxed more heavily is because of industrial heavyweights lobbying congress extensively. There is relatively little money spent in pro-legalization lobbying.

Furthermore, drug legalization in Portugal has made it easier to treat users of particularly dangerous drugs (such as heroin) and has in fact reduced use. Portugal might not have the same drug culture as the US, but it's still a promising result.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#223

Post by ElCabron »

yskchu wrote: post #191
ElCabron wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smuggling can be stopped in less than a year. A country so powerful and resourceful that sent a man on the moon, waged wars with countless countries, played nuclear chess with the soviets, influences and spies everyone with satellites & drones, can't get to the roots of this drug octopus ? Bullsh*t. They don't want to. They went in Iraq for a bunch of imaginary weapons and in Afghanistan for a terrorist that kill…

That is just hilarious; you think the drug cartel can be stopped by invading Mexico?? Did you see what happened in iraq; what happens in Mexico will be many times worse, a full on insurgency, funded by drug money, paid by US citizens... Our best example of a good way to go about reducing the drug trade is to go the way of Portugal.

It was just a way of saying that US has a huge capability (intelligence and military) which could be used and is used when the "national interests" dictates, but it's not used in this case, simply because there might be not enough national interest. Another way of viewing this: US attacks only the dealers that refuse to subordinate (the Talibans were guests in Washington, but something went wrong in this relationship).

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#224

Post by dhughes »

cbrauchli wrote: post #222
dhughes wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm unpopular for saying this but I doubt it would work and by that I mean people like Guzmán will always exist whether it's drugs, prostitution, stolen merchandise or whatever. Even today tobacco, mostly cigarettes, is smuggled and it is legal, people hate the high taxes implemented to help cover healthcare costs. The majority of legal drug (tobacco, alcohol) users it seems are low income so it would make sen…

The issue is less about whether people like El Chapo will profit on drugs and more about the 50,000 people murdered due to illegal trafficking. People might smuggle cigarettes, but they don't usually murder to do so. I also think people would be much more willing to tax drugs than food. The reason food is not taxed more heavily is because of industrial heavyweights lobbying congress extensively. There is relatively l…

> Portugal might not have the same drug culture as the US,

That's what I mean. I often deal with people from Monaco and work with a guy from Portugal and the difference in culture between southern Europe and here (US/Canada) is striking.

It's interesting to see how similar Monaco and Portugal are generally speaking. People from each area seem shocked by the excess we take for granted.

Food for example eating out and having a near litre container of sugar water plopped down in front of you doesn't raise an eyebrow here yet S. Europeans (as I call them) seem almost nauseated seeing it. Food is the same pounds of meat and lots of everything else, years ago a family would eat what one person eats today. None of the people I speak with eat after 8PM and most meals are small except maybe noontime, Portugal may be later.

I can't see the same results here for legalizing drugs we are a culture of excess, me first, I'm better than you, you-can't-handle-it-I-can kind of culture. It couldn't be more different going by what I can gather from speaking to locals from S. Europe.

As for cigarette smuggling not causing deaths, a car bomb going off in downtown Montreal killing an 11 year-old boy because rival biker gangs fight over smuggling turf, strip clubs (prostitution front) is pretty similar. Add to that Native American Mohawk warriors on the NY/Quebec border.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#225

Post by pacala »

_juof wrote: post #110
guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I think we should do even more: develop new drugs(and processes) with less side effects. Drugs(and processes) that let you escape reality when you want, but still enable you to manage life reasonably well and be relatively healthy. It's clear that the need or desire to escape reality won't change anytime soon. Instead of ignoring and fighting this reality, we should try to find constructive solutions.

Here's an unpopular view: Let's work together to make reality less dreary such that you don't have an urge to escape reality.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#226

Post by cbrauchli »

dhughes wrote: post #224
cbrauchli wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is less about whether people like El Chapo will profit on drugs and more about the 50,000 people murdered due to illegal trafficking. People might smuggle cigarettes, but they don't usually murder to do so. I also think people would be much more willing to tax drugs than food. The reason food is not taxed more heavily is because of industrial heavyweights lobbying congress extensively. There is relatively l…

> Portugal might not have the same drug culture as the US, That's what I mean. I often deal with people from Monaco and work with a guy from Portugal and the difference in culture between southern Europe and here (US/Canada) is striking. It's interesting to see how similar Monaco and Portugal are generally speaking. People from each area seem shocked by the excess we take for granted. Food for example eating out and…

Hmm. It's tough to say. I see what you mean now. Food is one thing, because it doesn't carry the negative stigma that drug use does here. The US is also extremely friendly towards obesity, from what I see. Obese people do not undergo anywhere near the same amount of humiliation as they would elsewhere. You're completely right though that the food culture in the US is one of absurd excess. I'm just not sure that excess would carry over to drugs.

Re: cigarettes, they're actually smoked much less than in Europe, despite being cheaper and having less graphic warnings. Alcohol is certainly consumed differently as well, but most people grow up and stop binge drinking past a certain age.

I don't really know about the cigarette smuggling you're talking about, so I won't comment on that. If you can point me to an article about it, I'd be interested to read more. I do find it hard to believe that it's had the same effect on communities as drug trafficking in Northern Mexico.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#227

Post by emiliobumachar »

marknutter wrote: post #216
guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

Won't they just shift to the next most profitable illegal good or service?

Yes, but it would be less profitable. That's less extra money for turf wars. Also, less incentives for people to become criminals, even if current ones are hopeless.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#228

Post by jakeonthemove »

DanBC wrote: post #201
bmelton wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of note, since I was curious as to the answer myself and just found out, there are still 'gangs' (though less the urban variety we're used to seeing) based around moonshining. That prompted me to ask "why is moonshining illegal", and the best (wrong) answer I could come up with was for production and delivery to dry counties. Turns out, it's just a matter of taxation. Moonshiners are welcome to go legit, but they the…

There's still a small safety element. Sometime moonshiners produce toxic alcohol, or they contaminate their product with things that are toxic. I agree that the main element is taxation. Very many cigarettes sold in England are smuggled in from EU because of tax. But now people are counterfeiting so some cigs are both smuggled and fake - the quality of some of the smuggled product is alarmingly poor. (But it's tricky…

And the cigarettes sold in EU are smuggled from Ukraine :-D - at least they're the real deal, even though they're like 5 times cheaper there...

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#229

Post by Willy_Wonka »

lolcraft wrote: post #212
Willy_Wonka wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No crime, barring [b]child slavery[/b]. http://vision.ucsd.edu/~kbranson/stopchocolateslavery/ataste... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_cocoa_production Top comment, and many comments totally oblivious to the realities of life. Not surprising for HN, sadly. Keep those libertarian blinkers on boys!

See, the thing is that, when a legal company is caught enslaving children, they get massive political, social, moral and economic pressure to stop. For instance, Nike and its famous sweatshops. If your business is illegal, however, you're neck deep in shit already, so the marginal benefit for stopping is almost zero. Twenty to fourty years added to a life sentence.

See, the thing is... you're completely clueless about the way the real world works.

People. Don't. Care.

Nike ~ want to dance with me on the number of factory inspections, and the amount of sweat-shop labour they still use?

Let's go further back... can you name me the hugely influential book on the meat packing industry in the USA, and what the author was attempting to highlight? And which Government regulatory branches it spawned?

Let's do this again ~ name me a single ex-colonial Corporation that's increased worker's rights without the state that they operate under forcing them to do so...

Bananas? Good luck with that one.

Fact is: You're white, privileged and stupid. If I had my way, you'd be culled.

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