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Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

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Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#171

Post by eterps »

hypeatei wrote: post #35
neonsunset wrote: post #28

It is unfortunate that Ladybird did not choose C#, being another high-level-adjacent C family language with strong systems programming capabilities crucial in browser development. It has smaller AOT binary size, faster application code performance and much bigger ecosystem of GUI libraries and native GUI library bindings (everything you have in C and C++ you pretty much have in C#) which can be used with very low ove…

I think most are just ignorant of what .NET is today vs 10-15 years ago. From my own personal findings, most on HN and general online dev space think it's Windows only and that hasn't been true for ~8 years or so. Microsoft has shifted to an open source approach for almost everything and Linux & Mac are first class citizens.

Are there any relatively well known non-Windows apps written in .NET? I guess Discord? Any others?

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#172

Post by LoganDark »

commodoreboxer wrote: post #72
ayhanfuat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago ( https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 ). I think that's closely related.

How is that related? What does it have to do with Rust? If anything, I'd say it shows that social media (and microblogging platforms like Twitter and Mastodon in particular) tend to be politically charged, toxic, and dogmatic.

I think it has nothing to do with Rust; probably someone first found it who just so happened to be part of the Rust community, and since the Rust community is full of 'the type of person who would be offended by such an interaction' (basically any queer person) there was naturally an explosion about it.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#173

Post by neonsunset »

eterps wrote: post #171
hypeatei wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most are just ignorant of what .NET is today vs 10-15 years ago. From my own personal findings, most on HN and general online dev space think it's Windows only and that hasn't been true for ~8 years or so. Microsoft has shifted to an open source approach for almost everything and Linux & Mac are first class citizens.

Are there any relatively well known non-Windows apps written in .NET? I guess Discord? Any others?

Pretty much every non-GUI (and GUI if it's Avalonia/Uno/etc.) .NET application, unless it uses niche things like windows registery or management API, is by definition platform agnostic and runs wherever .NET runs (macOS, Linux, FreeBSD(with caveats), Android, iOS, Windows, sometimes in browser with WASM). Most businesses which have moved away from old versions run their server workloads on Linux hosts within K8S or otherwise.

Popular applications that run on Linux are

Jellyfin: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin

Sonarr (and other High Seas apps): https://github.com/Sonarr/Sonarr

Ryujinx: https://github.com/Ryujinx/Ryujinx (the kind of project that could likely compete with writing a browser in complexity)

Bitwarden (server): https://github.com/bitwarden

Garnet: https://github.com/microsoft/garnet (likely the fastest Redis implementation)

Stride3D: https://github.com/stride3d/stride

Godot (offers C# as script language, using regular .NET)

Various MonoGame and FNA games (which use vanilla .NET unlike Unity, there was even a game on Nintendo Switch with private FNA fork).

From the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#174

Post by Sakos »

eviks wrote: post #38
Sakos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if only a portion is toxic, because that portion can easily poison the well all on their own for everybody.

It does matter because there is a portion that is toxic in about any sizeable community, so following that logic all wells would be easily poisoned

It matters how vocal and widespread that toxic portion is. In Rust's case, it's significantly larger and more visible and more toxic than I've seen in, say, the Python or C camps.

> so following that logic all wells would be easily poisoned

All camps are easily poisoned. What's important is how each community deals with the toxicity and whether they consider it acceptable or not. Rust's community has generally accepted this rabid part of it and tacitly accepted their behavior.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#176

Post by rjh29 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #132
breckinloggins wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you back up this claim? Knowing what I know of both Andreas and the Swift team I find this comment incredibly bizarre. You either know something the rest of us don’t or you have made an emotional outburst in the form of an insult.

I don't know. This is speculation on my side. But they recently announced funding as a non-profit, as a few days later, they switch to Swift. Following the money is a good way to explain seemingly irrational decisions, at least as a first order approximation.

Moving to a non profit, forking from SerenityOS and (as a result of that) no longer being tied to C++ all happened at the same time.

It's possible Apple could be paying them to develop a rival browser but... why?

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#177

Post by mardifoufs »

LoganDark wrote: post #68
ayhanfuat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago ( https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 ). I think that's closely related.

[flagged]

Everything is political, right?

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#178

Post by mardifoufs »

LoganDark wrote: post #71
rvense wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ladybird and Serenity have a policy of not allowing any sort of expression of or reference to someone's sexuality or gender identity, as this is deemed "divisive" or "politicising". Rust does... not have that.

[flagged]

A community can be trans inclusive an toxic. Toxicity doesn't end at being queer or pro queer.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#179

Post by meiraleal »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #105
stephc_int13 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. This is not a justified decision, they just feel like it based either on vague and speculative reasons, or because they are funded to do so, I would not be surprised if they had discussions with the Swift marketing team.

Then build your own browser in Rust, start contributing to Servo, and who cares when a volunteer writes a browser in any language? Write a browser in COBOL for all I care. If it’s open source, it’s still a gift.

> If it’s open source, it’s still a gift.

I would be careful with this thought. Open source is being used a marketing in disguise more often than not, especially here

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#180

Post by hypeatei »

neonsunset wrote: post #173
eterps wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any relatively well known non-Windows apps written in .NET? I guess Discord? Any others?

Pretty much every non-GUI (and GUI if it's Avalonia/Uno/etc.) .NET application, unless it uses niche things like windows registery or management API, is by definition platform agnostic and runs wherever .NET runs (macOS, Linux, FreeBSD(with caveats), Android, iOS, Windows, sometimes in browser with WASM). Most businesses which have moved away from old versions run their server workloads on Linux hosts within K8S or o…

Also git credential manager: https://github.com/git-ecosystem/git-credential-manager
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