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Three month suspension for Python core developer

discuss.python.org

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Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#41

Post by ksjhtga »

The "council" members have chased away all reasonable people. One of the problems is that 90 core developers can vote for the council, but virtually all of them are inactive.

So they never set foot on GitHub or even the discussion platforms. They have no clue what is going on and still think everything is like in the good old times.

Couple this with the fact that only ragingly power hungry people apply for the council. There is a severe shortage of candidates.

So, in the elections the nasty people get something like 30 out of 90 votes. Since hardly anyone of the electorate has the faintest idea of what is actually going on (see above) and relies on official spin stories of the council members, who block opposing opinions, they can do what they like.

All people who oppose the inner circle are removed, defamed and silenced.

This is like (hypothetically) Trump first banning a Democrat from voting and then removing him from the U.S. entirely.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#43

Post by hungie »

red1reaper wrote: post #16
hungie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what that says. This is saying that when a neurodiverse person breaks decorum (read: is a giant asshole), the correct behavior is to let that person know they are having an impact and give them grace to grow their skills. Saying, "they are allowed to be assholes because they are neurodiverse" does nothing to help the neurodiverse person, and creates a stigma. I'm autistic. I constantly tell myself, "being…

I mean, there are situations where there could be a bit wiggling room to allow a neurodiverse person to break decorum a bit. For example, if someone has tourette they could be excused a bit the same way an autistic person can be excused a bit for not noticing a subtle social cue. But there is a clear difference between allowing a bit of leeway to break decorum and allowing one to be a massive asshole. I think there i…

[dead]

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#44

Post by a-french-anon »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #32
orf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thread is here: https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed... The person in question is Tim Peters. It’s weird to not name them, but not linking to the thread is appropriate.

I skimmed through that looking for the context. It seems to be that Tim didn't want the governing group to have even more power to kick people out of the project, argued his point eloquently and was then kicked off the project. E.g. > Like David too, I’m not opposed to making it impossible for the Board to do this on its own - I just want a higher bar than a simple majority vote. My years on the Board matched David’s…

What makes this "discussion" even more suspicious is how the (arguably justified) fear that this could lead to a Nix-style takeover is answered each time with "no problem here, just The Nix Community^tm doing what's right".

Of course, your interpretation will vary with your ideology.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#45

Post by hungie »

a-french-anon wrote: post #30
pf_moore wrote: post #25

TW: Sexual abuse For anyone on the outside, this appears to be an intensely rash decision. I can rest assured that Tim Peters found trauma in the experience of being suspended as the level of appropriate communication is never met, neither in this announcement, nor in Lukaz Langa's persistent references [1] [2] to rapists when discussing conduct on an internet forum. I'm sure there are reasons to become a python core…

Sorry in advance if this is "a bit" flamebait-y, but the irony is too strong for me to not point out: Working around another person’s problematic behavior and having to teach newcomers to the group to do the same is a known psychological antipattern. When talking about "neurodivergent" people having communication issues, but the now enshrined "use my pronouns or else" thing is conveniently forgotten.

There's a huge gap between someone being an odious asshole whom everyone just accepts, and, "this is how I'd prefer to be addressed".

Like, if a "Robert" says "I prefer Bob" and you still call them Robert, you're choosing to make them unhappy. If someone says, "I prefer they/them" and you use her, you are choosing to make them unhappy.

If someone says "I will be an asshole in public and won't accept critique on that" and everyone is like "this guy's an ass but deal with it" that's a problem with the community that should be addressed.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#46

Post by rekabis »

WCSTombs wrote: post #18

> Overloading the discussion of the bylaws change (47 out of 177 posts in topic at the time the moderators closed the topic), which created an atmosphere of fear, uncertainty, and doubt... > Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence, which could be seen as deliberate intimidation or creating an exclusionary environment. So simply having an opinion and expressing it cou…

> Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence

Yeah, racism and sexism goes in all directions, at relatively equal rates. The key thing being the _power asymmetry_ that makes certain groups differently visible (and effective in their bigotry) than others.

Saying that bigotry does not flow in a particular direction is cultivated ignorance at best, and maliciously dismissive bigotry at worst.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#47

Post by saulpw »

cowboylowrez wrote: post #37
nusl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow using Terry Davis as the top-end of your scale is quite funny, but I suppose accurate.

its not useful, I can't tell what a 1 or a 2 is if I don't know the value of "Terry Davis". 1 or 2 is bad if "Terry Davis" is 3 but we don't know that.

The top of the scale is always 10.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#48

Post by leereeves »

incrudible wrote: post #26
esperent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Affirmative action is taken when the outcome does not match the expected value assuming all contenders were equal and the mismatch is explained by racism. This assumption however falls apart considering that Asians do face racism and yet their outcomes are better than expected. Affirmative action does play a role in them being effectively disadvantaged even over whites, e.g. for college admissions. https://www.scienc…

Affirmative action was voted down even in California. If it's not acceptable in California, those who still support it must be pretty far left.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#49

Post by cowboylowrez »

saulpw wrote: post #47
cowboylowrez wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not useful, I can't tell what a 1 or a 2 is if I don't know the value of "Terry Davis". 1 or 2 is bad if "Terry Davis" is 3 but we don't know that.

The top of the scale is always 10.

TIL! checks multimeter

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#50

Post by hi-v-rocknroll »

WCSTombs wrote: post #18

> Overloading the discussion of the bylaws change (47 out of 177 posts in topic at the time the moderators closed the topic), which created an atmosphere of fear, uncertainty, and doubt... > Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence, which could be seen as deliberate intimidation or creating an exclusionary environment. So simply having an opinion and expressing it cou…

Stepping back to observe a general pattern: When an organization permits and spends a disproportionate amount of time on nonsense and/or unfair governance then it could be too caught up in drama like ideological wars instead of its original mission. At that point, high performing and interesting people disengage or find another organization that doesn't waste their time or energy.

The SF MoMA case follows a similar pattern. [1]

1. https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1052650979/mcwhorters-new-boo...

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