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Three month suspension for Python core developer

discuss.python.org

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Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#21

Post by chmod775 »

nmstoker wrote: post #19
huhkerrf wrote: post #4

> Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence, which could be seen as deliberate intimidation or creating an exclusionary environment. > Overloading the discussion of the bylaws change (47 out of 177 posts in topic at the time the moderators closed the topic)... The later result of the vote showed 81% support for the most controversial of the bylaws changes, which demons…

The accusation around the SNL sketch seems flawed owing to a clear misreading of what he was speaking of when he said "it" was genuinely funny.

Yes. He was referring to a python package called "slut". Instead of using that word he already self-censored - but still they twisted that in one of the most childish instances of disingenenuety, leaving out as much context as one could without being too obvious.

They also referred to it with two bullet points, conveniently spaced to make it seem like separate incidents.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#22

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

huhkerrf wrote: post #15
esperent wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because they are less obviously bad but they were nonetheless the biggest issues. I've found this before with problematic individuals on forums. They rarely break "obviously bad" rules because they know they'll get the ban hammer and everyone will agree they they deserved it. Instead they cause just as much havoc and disruption by doing things that don't seem that bad when they are accused of them. Eventually t…

That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.

[flagged]

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#23

Post by esperent »

huhkerrf wrote: post #15
esperent wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because they are less obviously bad but they were nonetheless the biggest issues. I've found this before with problematic individuals on forums. They rarely break "obviously bad" rules because they know they'll get the ban hammer and everyone will agree they they deserved it. Instead they cause just as much havoc and disruption by doing things that don't seem that bad when they are accused of them. Eventually t…

That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.

[flagged]

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#24

Post by a-french-anon »

esperent wrote: post #10
huhkerrf wrote: post #4

> Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence, which could be seen as deliberate intimidation or creating an exclusionary environment. > Overloading the discussion of the bylaws change (47 out of 177 posts in topic at the time the moderators closed the topic)... The later result of the vote showed 81% support for the most controversial of the bylaws changes, which demons…

Maybe because they are less obviously bad but they were nonetheless the biggest issues. I've found this before with problematic individuals on forums. They rarely break "obviously bad" rules because they know they'll get the ban hammer and everyone will agree they they deserved it. Instead they cause just as much havoc and disruption by doing things that don't seem that bad when they are accused of them. Eventually t…

So, people manage to express dissent while following all the rules and this is somehow a bad thing? You can't just handwave people away by pretending to be a mind reader and proclaiming firm opposition is "obviously" trolling or arguing in bad faith.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#25

Post by pf_moore »

TW: Sexual abuse

For anyone on the outside, this appears to be an intensely rash decision. I can rest assured that Tim Peters found trauma in the experience of being suspended as the level of appropriate communication is never met, neither in this announcement, nor in Lukaz Langa's persistent references [1] [2] to rapists when discussing conduct on an internet forum.

I'm sure there are reasons to become a python core developer, but open hostility and defaulting to homogeneity have rarely been experienced as acceptance by me; they simply scale in ways easily implemented across a wide audience.

De-escalation and finding middle ground without validating harmful behavior do not scale well but then again, there has never been a capitalist movement behind finding a solution which works

1: https://discuss.python.org/t/how-can-we-better-support-neuro...

2: https://discuss.python.org/t/discussion-about-recent-coc-eve...

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#26

Post by incrudible »

esperent wrote: post #23
huhkerrf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.

[flagged]

Affirmative action is taken when the outcome does not match the expected value assuming all contenders were equal and the mismatch is explained by racism. This assumption however falls apart considering that Asians do face racism and yet their outcomes are better than expected. Affirmative action does play a role in them being effectively disadvantaged even over whites, e.g. for college admissions.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429212...

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#27

Post by orf »

WCSTombs wrote: post #18

> Overloading the discussion of the bylaws change (47 out of 177 posts in topic at the time the moderators closed the topic), which created an atmosphere of fear, uncertainty, and doubt... > Defending “reverse racism” and “reverse sexism”, concepts not backed by empirical evidence, which could be seen as deliberate intimidation or creating an exclusionary environment. So simply having an opinion and expressing it cou…

The thread is here: https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed...

The person in question is Tim Peters.

It’s weird to not name them, but not linking to the thread is appropriate.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#28

Post by rowanG077 »

Very bad look. They ask for discussion but when someone brings them counterpoints they suspend them for three months. I read the discussion and I'm assuming it's about Tim Peters. But his responses seem normal and not at all something that even almost should warrant a ban. This is almost cartoonish level of power abuse.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#29

Post by huhkerrf »

bdjsiqoocwk wrote: post #22
huhkerrf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but those two things shouldn't come into play at all. Just leave them out. Is this group saying that if you disagree with the idea that only white people can be racist that you can't be a contributor? I'm honestly trying to find a good faith explanation that's better than that.

[flagged]

You say "OF COURSE" but it doesn't take long to encounter the argument that racism is "prejudice plus power." It's a classic motte and bailey.

I know what you're trying to imply with your comment, but again, you can't have it both ways.

Re: Three month suspension for Python core developer

#30

Post by a-french-anon »

pf_moore wrote: post #25

TW: Sexual abuse For anyone on the outside, this appears to be an intensely rash decision. I can rest assured that Tim Peters found trauma in the experience of being suspended as the level of appropriate communication is never met, neither in this announcement, nor in Lukaz Langa's persistent references [1] [2] to rapists when discussing conduct on an internet forum. I'm sure there are reasons to become a python core…

Sorry in advance if this is "a bit" flamebait-y, but the irony is too strong for me to not point out:

  Working around another person’s problematic behavior and having to teach newcomers to the group to do the same is a known psychological antipattern.
When talking about "neurodivergent" people having communication issues, but the now enshrined "use my pronouns or else" thing is conveniently forgotten.
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