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Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

theguardian.com

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Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#91

Post by throwaway2037 »

presentation wrote: post #87
Danieru wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed how Loop scooters in Japan have a tiny license plate? That's because they require a license to rent and operate. That's because they are a self powered mobile vehicle. An automobile if you will. Automobiles in Japan require a license to drive. Plus you must drive them on the road, with the other automobiles.

FYI nowadays you don’t need a drivers license to ride them. But yeah they are registered vehicles.

JapanTimes agrees with you: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/japan/2023/07/21/explainer/bike...

    > you’ll have to pass a quick traffic test and submit proof of identification on the app in order to begin renting.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#92

Post by narism »

gentile wrote: post #8

A license isn't needed for an electric bicycle. The law states that it is classified as an electric bicycle if it is only pedal assist and only up to 24kph (15mph). The issue arises when either there are no pedals, or it can be operated without using pedals, like these suitcases. Electric only operation moves the classification to a scooter, thus license needed. https://archive.ph/Fw5lX https://www.keishicho.metro.to…

There was a new carve out created last year that allows driving electric scooters without a license, provided they meet some requirements (speed limiter, a speed indicator light, etc).

https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/elec...

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#93

Post by csomar »

ww520 wrote: post #83

How big are the batteries for these things? Aren’t they a fire hazard? I’m surprised the airlines allowed them aboard.

Yeah, they don’t allow big batteries on carryon and nothing in checked out luggage. How are people travelling with these?

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#94

Post by numpad0 »

Danieru wrote: post #84
throwaway2037 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Loop work? They are rental electric scooters.

Have you noticed how Loop scooters in Japan have a tiny license plate? That's because they require a license to rent and operate. That's because they are a self powered mobile vehicle. An automobile if you will. Automobiles in Japan require a license to drive. Plus you must drive them on the road, with the other automobiles.

They managed to get a new category created just for Luup scooters. I've seen some on social media passive-aggressively wondering what kind of sorcery was at play for that.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#95

Post by numpad0 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #73
Danieru wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd need functional pedals, and for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power.

> for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power Is that the rule for normal ebikes? That's very restrictive!

Looks like it was relaxed in 2008 to up to 200% of input at up to 10kph/6mph then taper to zero at 24kph/15mph, yeah it is kind of restrictive.

I think equal power part is not too complicated to implement, with a load-bearing "just" you just sync synchronous motor driver to the rotor phase and limit current upstream. I believe a prototype also has to be brought to some office to get certified. Frankly it's all par for the course for a Japanese regulation; engineering cost is considered free and everything is supposed to be approved by someone official-ish.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#96

Post by kazinator »

wkat4242 wrote: post #2

Meh. 13kmh is not a lot and these are only suitable for really smooth floors. Don't see the point though because these things are so big they must be checked in which is the first thing you do at an airport so they can't be used after that. I also wonder how much useful space is left in them after the slide-out steering mechanism, batteries and motors. I'd be more worried about tons of lithium batteries made to the c…

13 km/h is a 7:22 mile pace. For the average recreational runner, that would be like using the airport terminal for their tempo run.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#97

Post by petsfed »

piafraus wrote: post #37
petsfed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you can't actually pedal this thing, which is to me (and a lot of lawmakers in the US) sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". The other problem here is that with ever-increasing electric motor technology, old standards like engine displacement, or even power supply (gas vs electric) are not great indicators of the maximum speed of these things. As it stands, whil…

> you can't actually pedal this thing... sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". Interesting. Just wondering - what does "pedal" mean to you. Explicitly spinning and explicitly with feets? Are any of those not considered bicycles to you? -Elliptical bicycle -Treadmill bicycle -Handcycle

In all 3 cases, the forward motion is ultimately provided by human power. So, even if you (for some reason) decided to motorize an elliptical bicycle or treadmill bicycle, the straightforward requirement is that its still mostly functional without power provided to the motor. I feel like an electric-assist handcycle should already exist, but its ultimately the same question. "Does it still work nearly as well after the battery is discharged?" I'm not super fit, but I can definitely hit 30 km/h on my road bike, so pedal assist to get me to 30 km/h is not beyond the reasonable limits of the average user.

You can certainly put a motorcycle into neutral and sort of scoot it around, but to make it usable in that configuration, you'd have to mess with the overall geometry to the point that its not comfortable to ride as a motorcycle.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#98

Post by petsfed »

recursive wrote: post #10
petsfed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you can't actually pedal this thing, which is to me (and a lot of lawmakers in the US) sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". The other problem here is that with ever-increasing electric motor technology, old standards like engine displacement, or even power supply (gas vs electric) are not great indicators of the maximum speed of these things. As it stands, whil…

I see a lot of scooters around here with vestigial compliance pedals, mostly driven by gig delivery drivers. The form factor looks more like a moped. No one would ever use those pedals. Clearly they're there to skirt some kind of regulation. I'm not sure what the fix is, but "able to pedaled" is kind of a ridiculous compromise.

So long as the pedals are hooked up to the drive train in such a way that they actually work, I don't actually have any complaint.

If the user can easily switch to backup-pedal power to traverse e.g. Millenium Park in Chicago, then I don't really see the problem. Certainly, failure to use that function is a problem, but I don't think its good for society if we allow police to stop actual bicyclists on suspicion of riding a pedal assist vehicle. These things are pretty obvious when in use: bikes don't coast, unassisted, uphill at the speeds these things frequently achieve.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#99

Post by nomel »

makeitdouble wrote: post #56
nomel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, a speed limit rather than a complete ban?

That could be the way. Now would these still sell if the speed limit was 2km/h ?

It seems like the average walking speed (3mph, 5km/h) would be a more reasonable limit, since all the luggage is already "zipping" around at that speed.

Re: Japan cracks down on use of rideable electric suitcases amid tourist boom

#100

Post by qwerty456127 »

nomel wrote: post #99
makeitdouble wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be the way. Now would these still sell if the speed limit was 2km/h ?

It seems like the average walking speed (3mph, 5km/h) would be a more reasonable limit, since all the luggage is already "zipping" around at that speed.

I'd rather set it to running speed. Occasionally you would run through an airport but you probably can't do that comfortably all the way from one terminal to another one. Riding a personal portable electronic vehicle would just let you do the same all the way without to much sweating.
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