Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#11

Post by automatoney » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

JohnMakin wrote: post #6

There are people so addicted to this that they will literally create problems out of nowhere so they can pull some heroics and save the day, always with high visibility from management. Seen a person advance pretty far in their career this way. Until management stops incentivizing this behavior, it won't stop. This is a management issue - which seems weird because this writing seems targeted towards IC's.

I haven't run into this person but I'd love to hear about problems you've seen people create - I can't even think of a problem I could create and fix.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#12

Post by fizx » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

Whenever I see these google SRE articles, I kinda reduce the message to "don't be a hero in a cost center in an org with nearly unlimited resources."

If you're in a profit center, you might get rewarded for your risk.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#13

Post by stonogo » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

lkbm wrote: post #4

mgaunard wrote: post #2

Heroism is what you do until you manage to secure the headcount and hire the team that lets you run things smoothly. In the real world, getting approval for headcount can take 6 months, hiring 3, training another 3. So you need to sustain heroism for a year without burning out.

Heroism as described in this slideshow prevents anyone from realizing/accepting that they need to hire the appropriate headcount.

Not really. At a mature org, if anyone is putting in over 40 hours a week, management should he investigating. It's a warning flag either way.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#14

Post by codingwagie » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

You don't want heroes at large companies with top down product management. You need heroes at small innovative startups. This write up is more of a documentation on the stagnant culture inside google

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#15

Post by codingwagie » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

fizx wrote: post #12

Whenever I see these google SRE articles, I kinda reduce the message to "don't be a hero in a cost center in an org with nearly unlimited resources." If you're in a profit center, you might get rewarded for your risk.

Yeah ha, this was literally my thought.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#16

Post by JohnMakin » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 5:00 PM UTC

automatoney wrote: post #11

JohnMakin wrote: post #6

There are people so addicted to this that they will literally create problems out of nowhere so they can pull some heroics and save the day, always with high visibility from management. Seen a person advance pretty far in their career this way. Until management stops incentivizing this behavior, it won't stop. This is a management issue - which seems weird because this writing seems targeted towards IC's.

I haven't run into this person but I'd love to hear about problems you've seen people create - I can't even think of a problem I could create and fix.

one instance I can remember immediately - lead SRE turns off an alert for some DLQ that has been finicky and experiencing periodic issues, often requiring intervention from the on-call team. he doesn’t tell the on call team he turned this off, suspecting that after a day or so something downstream will blow up. Then it does, he appears out of nowhere to save the day with the precise solution and looks like a genius for it.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#17

Post by nuancebydefault » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

Heroism is a good thing I believe, as long as it is not applied systematically.

Example 1: A client has a deadline and a malfunction or unpredictable limitation of our product is in their critical path. A few people put in collaborate effort, meaning working extra hours a few days, to help them out. Later the customer is happy and the boss throws a celebration drink.

Example 2 : an ICT member got a message that could indicate a security breach over the weekend. He logs in and sees more suspicious activity. He takes first actions (disable all logins/access of certain criteria) and calls head of ICT.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#18

Post by george1384 » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

Total junk. Don't blame the "hero" for their behavior, blame the management for not thinking ahead and making sure the problems didn't fester, blister, boil over to the point in which babysitting the systems over the weekend became necessary.

No "hero" ever does this work without trying to plan for it ahead of time. "Heroics" are necessary when the system let them down and stop letting long term thinking and planning account for problems.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#19

Post by RHSeeger » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 5:06 PM UTC

lutarezj wrote: post #10

Not sure if heroism is bad. [1] All teams should have a Jordan, a kobe, a shaquille or a combi. One needs A players and supporting cast. It is not the culture or the org who decides upon the evolution of the heroism. It is the hero who builds a team around him/her. [2] the scrum or agile saga that promotes that all team members should be able to do what all team members do is just excel-minded-nonesense. Cant win cha…

What you're describing isn't at all what the linked page is discussing.

Re: Why Heroism Is Bad and What We Can Do to Stop It

#20

Post by readthenotes1 » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 5:07 PM UTC

Carrok wrote: post #8

"No matter how many hours they need to work." "No matter that they need to work evenings and weekends." I don't call these people heroes, I call them idiots. Also, not being able to copy/paste text from text slides is a pretty terrible design choice, but we shouldn't be surprised knowing what the source is.

They're not idiots if they're paid by the hour.